I have a message from the Lord, which He gave me yesterday. This scathing message concerning the pastors in our land had me literally crying. I warn you when reading this, it got to my spirit very deeply, and I am not even a pastor.
As I was studying Ezekiel 34:1-10 (shown at the bottom of this post), the Lord asked me, “Why are you studying this book?”
My reply, “Because I wanted to read the book of Ezekiel, and this chapter 34 got my attention and was very disturbing, and sad how pastors act today.”
The Lord then replied, “I am disgusted with these wicked pastors.”
I then cried out for mercy and asked the Lord to explain. He eventually told me, “Write down what I say.”
“I am the Lord God, and My anger is hot! My anger has kindled against these pastors! I am mad and disgusted with them. They peddle lies! They peddle lust!. They peddle whoredom! Know this very well, I see everything they do, and it makes me sick.
These pastors shall surely pay for leading my sheep to the slaughter house. Well, I am going to take these pastors to the slaughter house, and slaughter them. They are an embarrassment to My name. My Son Jesus Christ died on the cross, and they teach as though He never did. They do not teach repentance and mercy, they teach harlotry!
They day is coming when these pastors will wish they never got in bed with Satan. They think they are cool! They think they are cute! They think they are pretty! They are not; they are utterly disgusting. I will destroy every one of them, I will shame them in their nakedness. Their make up will be taken off, and the people will see how ugly they are. I will embarrass them, just like they are an embarrassment to me. They will surely pay. For they are full of many spiritually transmitted diseases. They are sick, very sick. They teach doctrines not of me.
They lie, cheat, and steal! They cheat the people. They steal from the people. They lie to people, and expect to be blessed by Me. I do not bless these lies. I am the Lord, and I require holiness. I require honesty, even when it hurts.
I require no interest and no fees when it comes to My kingdom, yet you take usury from people, and keep them down and poor. You take usury to fatten yourselves. You take usury to kill the innocent. You even take bribes to kill the innocent. You can not take a bribe for your salvation.
You, My sheep, must come out of these churches, for if you do not you will be slaughtered. I am calling you out of these churches, into my real shepherds. I am calling you out into the truth.
For all My shepherds who have done what has been commanded of them, to all My shepherds who have done what is right, who have not squandered what was given to them, or their opportunity, they have taught and preached love, they have taught and preached holiness, they have taught and preached repentance, they have taught and preached mercy, they have not preyed on the weak, they have not lied, they have not cheated, they have not stolen from their members, nor anyone else.
I am the Lord God I see you and I will remember you. I am raising you up. You will show forth great signs and wonders.
You wicked pastors, you think you can pimp me out? You are whores, and whores are not over pimps. Satan is your pimp. I am God, not a pimp! I am not a whore either. You open your legs for a dollar. You open your legs for popularity. You open your legs for so called protection. You will now reap all the diseases from being a harlot, and I the Lord God will shut your legs for good.
The days are coming when these wicked pastors will not know what hit them, and like a whirlwind, I will bring much destruction upon them. Your dollar will not save you, in the hour of My judgment. The rapture is coming soon, but not before many trials and tribulation. I shall bring down America, and many in the west, and these wicked pastors will not have anyone to save them.
My true shepherds teach the right way, and I will see them through this storm. I am the Lord God, you must keep My commandments. You must live holy. You must repent. You must believe on the name of My Son Jesus and be baptized. Do not let anyone tell you any different.
You wicked pastors, it’s over for you! You have allowed this land to become this way because you refuse to walk upright and rightly divide My word. You are a bunch of sissies and cowards in My eyes. You refuse to fight in My army. You refuse to walk in your true calling. You refuse to walk in holiness. Now I refuse to walk with you, or fight with you. You wicked pastors your time is over!
I then asked the Lord one final question, “Didn’t the people desire all these sins?”
The Lord replied “Yes, but these shepherds refused to teach them holiness and My ways. Thus, they had nothing but a desire to sin whenever they left the church house. Many choose to follow these pastors because they have the choice. My desire has always been to leave people with no option, but to follow the true shepherd, but man wanted Satan. If Adam and Eve would have followed me, and not Satan, I would have dealt with eliminating Satan from their presence then, and they would have passed the test. Sadly, many choose Satan over Me, and in the end if they do not come back to Me, they will have Satan for all eternity, where their will be weeping, and gnashing of teeth.
When there are true shepherds in the land, and many of them, people will seek them for the truth, and find them. But when there are no true shepherds in the land, they will seek for guidance, and they will not find any. Seek Me while you can, because a day will come when you will not be able to seek Me any more. Instead it will be judgment day and you will have found who your true master is. Will it be Me, because you served Me, or will it be Satan because you served him?
Those who truly seek Me will find Me. Unless you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, there is no sin I will not forgive. Tell My people to come unto Me. The hour is very late, we are minutes away from midnight. The tribulation will soon begin, please know Me and My commandments. Tell the people, I am the Lord God, and The Book of Revelation is unfolding right now.”
1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock.
4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them.
5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”
7 ‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord:
8 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”—
9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord!
10 Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.” (Ezekiel 34:1-10)
Author: Matt Smith
Matt Smith received the Lord in 2011, then ran from Him for a few months before returning and has not taken his hand off the plow. Today he is a church musician, minister, and husband. He believes in the saying “Get right church, and lets go home.” He enjoys making others laugh and smile saying, “I don’t need medicated happiness, I come naturally happy.”
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The Father says today refuse to be distracted. When the enemy figures out that you are not going to be moved from your focus on My kingdom, distractions will radically diminish in your life. The enemy of your soul will not waste his time on a strategy against you that no longer works. Stop answering that call when it comes. You know what the conversation will be and that the end of it is frustration and anger. Refuse to read the text from hell. Delete that e-mail without reading it. Stop playing into the distraction of the enemy to manipulate your emotions and steal your joy.
This day I call upon you, says the Father, to take responsibility and authority over every avenue of ingress into your life, and heart, and mind. Turn away from the corrupt communications being poured into your life through others, through the media and even those closest to you. When they lament in their hypocrisy – refuse to feign mournfulness with them. When they pipe the odes of their unbelief – refuse to dance to their tune. Make it your determination to be careful for nothing, and set your affection and the attenuation of your mind upon WHO I AM and WHAT I AM DOING, and not any other thing. In so doing beloved, you will immerse yourself in My presence and elevate yourself to a new level of authority with immediate results.
Attenuation is a general term that refers to any reduction in the strength of a signal.
Marilee I have a family member that sends nasty emails every once in awhile for years. They upset me very deeply. My spirit quickened after reading your post. Felt like God was speaking to me giving me permission to delete and give it to him. This person is filled with evil. Please pray for her. God Bless you.
Have you been watching me? I read this and froze immediantly. I’ve been having issues with a close friend. He insists on texting me at all hours(even at work), and then getting angry if I don’t respond. He has a way of making me feel guilty for not wanting to talk to him too. Finally, I asked God to help me know what to do. So thank you, for telling me exactly what I needed to hear.
I still find it so surreal to hear these words from the Lord – and to realize that he is talking about US and OUR church in OUR country. These are words that we see over and over in the Bible all throughout history and I think it’s tempting to think well that was them…. but we’re us and we’re somehow better.
The thing is. We’re not better. In fact, it may be fair to say that our country is worse than any previous country in history. It has been said before that if God doesn’t come down hard on America for her sins then he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah. I respect that statement. I think it’s true.
People can say what they want about our President saying we’re not a Christian country anymore. I’m not saying his statement was appropriate (or what we would want to hear) but maybe he was on to something. The way we’re acting, the way the church is living… isn’t exactly Christian anymore. It’s very troubling and deeply saddening.
Joe,
I agree with everything that you said. My sentiments EXACTLY.
Also, remember that the Bible states “there is nothing new under the sun.”
What is happening today, has transpired before, just in a different time period and with different cast of “characters” (pun intended). EXCEPT this time, we are headed into the worst and darkest time of human history.
Simultaneously, it will be a time of miracles, signs, wonders, Gospel preaching for the remnant assisting in bringing in the Final End-times Harvest.
I heard, two weeks before the passing of Jan Crouch, that the Holy Spirit was not at all happy about the Pharisees on TV and God is tired of being a marketing tool for the them. This prophetic word aligns with what I was told. The megachurches are going to also endure His wrath. Watered down, feel good, compromised messages (like the prosperity gospel being taught) are going to get hammered and no longer tolerated. It’s coming. What they have built their doctrines on, they will be taken out by. Money seems to be His focus, because too many churches have it as their main focus. This is also going to include the stock market (and the golden calf in front of Wall Street). There’s more to what I’ve been shown, yet I’ll just leave this post comment as a confirmation to what’s to come by year’s end.
There is nothing more hypocritical than attacking the prosperity gospel. If it is evil then we should stop accepting paychecks and work only as a volunteer. Of course we all accept paychecks and even desire bigger ones because we have bills to pay, which is why it is hypocritical to attack the prosperity gospel. The Bible is a prosperity message because God wants us to prosper above all things (3 John 1:2). As earthly parents, we want to see our children prosper. God wants the same for us.
Please be aware that the scripture quoted is not a doctrinal message. It is a greeting (salutation). Like Dear, James hope you and the family are doing well and all is at peace. Now, to learn about wealth and riches study the Fear of the Lord. Prosperity is different for different people. If you have a $100,000 are you rich? For many yes. If you have no “debt” are you rich for some yes. Do you have “peace of mind”? How much money can buy that? Steve Jobs had plenty of $$$$$ and could not buy health nor long life.
Money is not evil, but greed is.
The widow woman received more honor than the rich young ruler. If you only had one sides to choose which would it be?
The whole Bible is a warning of a coming judgment, which we can escape by accepting God’s invitation to partake in His plan for our prosperity both in this life and the age to come. It is a simple message, but many have missed it because the devil has blinded them through false teachers spreading confusion, which can get us so mixed up we forget the heart of the message.
James I agree. Are you comfortable giving your take on Bette Stevens e-book describing her trip to hell ? It is anything BUT a prosperity message.
Also love to hear others take. The scriptures do justify her message but my image of my Father is different. It is a very sobering message and not in the mood to argue about scriptures. But I feel it is important.
×Bette
Thank you Diana,
Its getting old now,Either people will believe or they wont……But people will not be able to stand in front of a Holy God and say that they were not told..I heard that in hell too……People are free to think whatever they want.but truth is truth and I will stand because the hour is late,people have been taught false doctrines ,and I will not even get into anything else….This is not the place,,
But God has raised me up for such a time as this to be like an OT prophet…….Most did not like there warnings of impending judgments either.
But either we preach the whole word and be instant in season and out of season or we dont……The Lord has already told me the rejection years ago about this,many will be encumbered with the world and go after false doctrine and believe almost anything…..I saw that in hell……
My job is too warn ,and much heavier warnings are coming……This is in part why I am preparing now.
Anyway ,thank you and enough said on this subject…….
Blessings to you
I am very comfortable with the reality of hell, but it is not the will of God for anyone to perish, which is why He provided us with a way of escape (2 Peter 3:9).
James I don’t think you read her book or are skirting the question. My take is if you aren’t living and breathing every thought toward God you are living at that moment in the flesh and thus serving other gods (mammon). Bette says (I’m waiting for her reply) if you aren’t repentant everyday (might as well be hour or second because it’s all the same to God) then you are going to hell. Period.
Now James, are you comfortable discussing that and did you read her e-book ?
Jeff,
I am not going to go into a big discussion about the book,It is what it is,,,,I would kindly suggest you take it to the Spirit for confirmation,,,,,,The title itself should tell you that we are “REDEMMED”I will not debate or argue any point……God is a God of love,mercy and grace ,but He is also a God of holiness,righteousness and judgement.
If you have questions further please feel free to inbox me…….
I understand this is your take on it,however through its reading it is to bring people that are not living holy or have turned away to conviction of the Holy Spirit through Repentance and this is what it has done for many ,not to mention ,,people that have read it have given their life to Christ…….We cant pick and choose what we like to hear and leave other things out…….and above all pray about it look at Scripture and what Jesus had to say about it………
This is what God has called me to do and do it I will……because I am all about souls……and not seeing anyone perish……Unfortunately we have lost the referential fear of the Lord……….God bless you and I hope this helps……
I am not here to please men,but to please Jesus above all…….Gal 1:10,,,, I cant concern myself with what people may think or not think about it….I was given the charge by Jesus to warn all ,and warn all His people ,judgments are coming and we need to all make sure we are in right standing with God daily…..
The battle has and is on now for souls and people need to know that they know where they will spend eternity……..
I have not read her e-book, but I agree with the reality of hell and the need for ongoing repentance in every area of our life. It is wise to fear God.
James I get it. Maybe this discussion would not be uplifting on the site. We can drop it.
I think the issue of hell, and how it relates to repentance is very interesting. I viewed one of Bette’s videos and she was talking about a hell for prophets, for apostles, and an even bigger hell for preachers. Also, Bill Weiss’ “23 Minutes in Hell” is awesome in describing it, and what he went through. He said you’ll never get a full breath of air again, no one will ever know your name, and you’ll never have a conversation with anyone; just constant torture. It’s important to know what God wants.
Amen! Thanks for sharing.
I am totally sold on Bill Wiese’s books on Hell.
His “23 Questions about Hell book” is awesome.
You can also look up the Youtube videos about him.
He backs everything up with loads of Scriptures. It’s all there.
In this age of Laodicea, we are more often than not taught the FULL COUNSEL of SCRIPTURE.
We are generally not taught about hell specifically, which is why it seems so shocking. We really need to understand both the kindness and the severity of God.
We can do it God’s Way OR we can do it God’s Way, but we will do it GOD’S WAY.
Above in the second paragraph I meant to say that “more often than not, we are NOT taught the FULL COUNSEL of SCRIPTURE.”
Sorry for being unclear in that statement.
About 20 years ago I wrote about what hell might be like, and Bette’s reading of her book is confirmation. I included the description in a book I wrote. Here is the introduction to that part:
I’ll include a link to that chapter, and “Scenario of the Lake of Fire” can be found about 2/3 of the way down the page.
http://www.ekklesia4him.net/CFTR/the_end_of_all_flesh.html
May we all be a part of the church without spot or wrinkle, living a life of repentance.
Your wisdom is refreshing! Thanks.
Sounds like there is more grace for the unbeliever than the believer. If that is true then mostly we all are screwed…..
Why bother to save anyone if in their humanity they will fall down after that and so have to be condemned to Hell in the end anyway.
That is messed up to me. I am in no danger of abusing grace. It will just take me several lifetimes to believe grace actually will extend to me, and see me all the way through.
I agree JRB…sometimes when I read from others that even though we are saved, we are still on the verge of going to Hell, I almost want to give up. Every day I see another message telling how I’m NOT SAVED!!! I agree we need to live for YHWH, and follow His commandments to the best of our ability, but I grow weary of hearing that I’m not going to make it.
Some of the greatest heroes of the Bible would’ve gone to Hell if they had died at the moment they fell into some of their greatest sins. David, Peter, Noah… and on and on. They all sinned (greatly) AFTER they had made their choice to follow the Lord. And yet, now we laud them as great saints of history. I suppose we should take some encouragement from that.
The older I get though the more I lend myself to believe in predestination. It may not be Biblical but it just feels like some people are going to Heaven no matter what (they’ve been ‘chosen’) and others will struggle and struggle and just not make it in the end. I guess because it was never meant to be for them.
I remember when I first found out about grace. It was pretty amazing after growing up in an environment where I was taught to toe the line (be perfect) or go to Hell. But, that was years ago, and admittedly I’ve become a lot more cynical since then. I think grace is for the ‘chosen’ people, not for the people who never had a chance right from the start. I’m not looking to have a debate here either. It’s just how I feel within my own pathetic soul and mind. Feelings are what they are, as they say. Not necessarily accurate predictors of reality.
JRB, please don’t despair. If there is anything I have learned in my 75 years on this earth, it’s that there is a lot of misinformation about some of the most important basic doctrines in the bible. Grace is one of those. The Lord showed me that Grace, for the most part, is the work of the Holy Spirit in the life of one born again. I’ve heard some preachers say that it is “God’s unmerited favor.” Not so!
We will never be perfect in this life. As long as we are surrendering to the working of the Holy Spirit in us and seeking a closer walk the Him, we need fear nothing. It is the sin of unbelief we must avoid. This is what the writer of Hebrews was speaking of in Hebrews 12:1, when he spoke of the “sin that so easily besets” us. It is the sin of unbelief, because in the 2nd verse he speaks of keeping our eyes on Jesus who is the author and perfecter of faith.
God didn’t send Jesus to keep His eye on us and send us to hell if we mess up. God sent Jesus to put flesh to death on our behalf, so that believing (having faith) in Him we might have Life.
I hope I have helped to encourage you a wee bit. There is so much I could say but must keep this short. My web site has dozens of articles I wrote over the past decade or so. They might be helpful to you. It made me sad to see your comments, above.
Keep looking up. 🙂
James, I think the prosperity gospel is different than wanting to be prosperous. The former is like saying come to our church and let’s have a club for a select group of people to gain with regard to finances, without the others bringing the others up. Whereas with the latter, it would be like the Calvinists, for instance, recognizing the importance of all of their fold being raised in their standing. It takes money to wield cultural influence, hence, the problem with the prosperity gospel churches; only the financially-influenced word gets out, so to speak, which in effect silences the others.
There are always problems with every kind of teaching, but the Bible is a message of prosperity. Jesus said He came to give us life more abundantly. We pursue prosperity in all sorts of ways then foolishly act like there is something wrong with it. The truth is the devil wants to keep all the wealth for himself so he spreads these lies.
Something not being shared here concerning prosperity is thanksgiving. No matter where we are financially, there is something to be thankful for. As Americans we have been so blessed and take things for granted. The Holy Spirit has really been impressing on me to be thankful for everything. Don’t take anything for granted. Praise God for the ability to go to the store to buy groceries. Praise Him for the vehicle to get there And back home. Praise Him for our shelter with all the comfortable conveniences. On our worse day there is so much to be thankful for. I am now in remission for cancer and people, who have been told they now have cancer talk to me. The one thing I do tell them is that I learned so much through the experience. God will, if you allow Him, to use terrible events for good. God is love and compassion. Sometimes I weep and at same time shake my head in amazement at what He has done for me. Let’s not forget the blessings. And at the same time share what you have with others. It can be something as simple as hellping the elderly unload their groceries into their car. I know all this may sound so simple. But I had to share this. Life is not all about acquiring money and possessions, but being thankful for what you do have.
Our life should be about doing what our Heavenly Father gives us to do. For some of us, He has given assignments of bringing in finances for His kingdom. That comes with persecution because some people wrongly assume we are seeking after money, but they will have to answer to God for making wrong judgments. Each of us will be held accountable for whether or not we completed our assignments.
As Neville Johnson states, “HE will only give to those who don’t have sticky fingers”. In other words, as a servant we know it all belongs to HIM and is to be used to bring HIM glory.
Amen, Beverly!
If you’re referring to the terminology of “prosperity gospel”, you may be fundamentally correct. Satan has probably hijacked the term for his many uses (such as to promote a doctrine and mentality of poverty in the churches, i.e., that one’s economic status is firm, extending to their influence, with regard to ideas, input, etc., in furthering oppression). The social contract between many church personnel and the congregants is effectively broken, and has been for decades. It forces people to look elsewhere for their needs to be met, as well as personal development (to include relationships and communications amongst individuals). Most people sit in a church service for an hour, without ever knowing who sits to their left or right, and they may or may not tithe. What do they really gain by being there, and what can they really contribute to society from their church experience? It seems to be a closed system, one very much in the grasp of corporate figureheads, with an economic agenda.
Wow Matt……that is a RAW WORD……thank you so much for being BOLD ENOUGH to give it. For the benefit of new readers to z3, who are “GIVE ME THE FACTS” people, I would recommend that they GOOGLE: “Dave Hodges, Why your pastor is not your friend.” (sorry, I am not good at posting specific links). The articles that will come up substantiate what Jesus told you to say. The government/Illuminati run churches will be telling their people “that it is God’s will that you be taken to the “re-education” camps TO BE KILLED.”
Wow Matt, what a word from the LORD. Mena Lee Grebin has posted a written word from the LORD about the tsunami http://watchmanonthewall33.blogspot.co.nz/
if the link is bad go to her site and then to her “watchmen on the wall” section.
Interesting, Matt NZ. She posted this on the same day Obama warned the nation about a disaster. It’s on the http://www.whitehouse.gov website and Michael Snyder gave a synopsis of it on his http://www.theeconomiccollapseblog.com site. SOMETHING will DEFINITELY be happening soon. Maybe this weekend?
Please remember that there are many, many, many pastors out there who
are ‘DOING THE RIGHT THING, ACCORDING TO THE HOLY SCRIPTURES
IN THESE END TIMES’.
Yes, Pastor Medd. There are several that post on this site. My pastor is one. We need to start honoring the good ones, and stop giving the bad ones a 63 million dollar jet.
I think if I change my last name to something to do with finance, and start a church, I guess I could retire at an early age, and get my Rolls Royce. My new name is Bishop Cassius Money, and I am the overseer and pastor of The House Of Golden Change. Lol.
But seriously, we have to start supporting these true pastors, and stop calling them money hungry. The true pastors, not the fake ones deserve a double portion.
When I first read your post, “HE” came to mind immediately! I remember reading that he told his congregation that if they each donated about 300 bucks each he could get this jet the lord wanted him to have. It was on the church’ website at one point too. I burst out laughing at first until I really thought about his congregation. I felt bad for them in a way. Some probably felt guilt if they didnt get the money to give him. Those on fixed incomes, elderly, kids to feed, mortgages to pay, poor and dont have 300 just laying around but trusting the lord really told him that.
Lo and behold the money rolled in and he got his jet. Since when do any of us need a 60 million dollar plane to do the Lord’s work? My pastor travels all over the world and does it COACH…..my first instinct was greed. If you earn your money and buy a private jet, that’s your business, but when you “guilt” others into buying it for you it looks a little bit questionable……and predator like.
N.S. it’s sad, that many people choose to give this man their money and support, for things like a $63,000,000 jet, and a big mansion, just to hear a message that makes them feel good, all the while their own pocket books, bank accounts, and refrigerators don’t feel good.
*There are several in America pastoring correctly
Unfortunately Rev Medd I do not believe they are all in this country, for if there were many many many of them our country would not be in the state that it is right now,.
AMERICA HAS CROSSED OVER THE THRESHHOLD OF MY JUSTICE; From the disaster now coming upon America, she will never recover. The devastation will bring such destruction that there will be no will among the people to recover. All will say, what good will it do. You will not be left to your own devises. Your enemy who will control your life, will show very little mercy. Death, destruction, mayhem, anger, and confusion will reign. Never will America rise to prominence again, she is doomed , destined to poverty and destruction. Stand , watch, and be dismayed how I will being this about. SELAH
Hi Matt, though it is true that most local pastors are on the brink of severe judgement, it is more so important that we see the bigger picture.
America is no longer a christian nation do to the weakness of it’s local churches. The local churches are week because of it’s carnal leaders. And most carnal leaders are fashioned in schools called SEMINARIES. It is only by God’s mercy that He allows some seminary students to keep growing into the image of His Son to becoming true leaders of His flock. There is only ONE way spiritual leaders can be raised – spending long hours in God’s presence while walking daily with Jesus. So here is the conclusion and the good news……
God is not only doing away with the carnal church and it’s corrupt leaders but He is also calling forth His Holy remnant to come together for the greatest
testimony of Jesus in the last days.
Since you refer to the Book of Jude, notice that Jude 1:12 refers to those who are “twice dead.” This cannot refer to physical death since we die but once so spiritual death is being referred to here. The only way to be spiritually dead TWICE is for an unbeliever who is spiritually dead (1st time), to be made alive in Christ and become a genuine believer. However if that believer continues in habitual sin and does not repent, he becomes spiritually dead (2nd time).That entails eternal separation from God and that is why Christians must lead repentant lives. No where in the entirety of the Bible is obedience and/or repentance described as “works.” So yes, we must fight the good fight and finish the race set before us.
great point on ‘twice dead’. We see the same w Adam and Eve, they didn’t physically die – so what was the death? Separation from God. Death throughout scripture can be generally taught as “separation”. Either soul from body in the case of physical, or severing of relationship when referring to above.
I remember my lemon tree had a branch that broke off and was laying on the ground. For the next few days, the fruit actually continued to grow, turn yellow. You may have thought it was still alive for a short time.
Another few things from Jude:
hidden reefs – their version of a plane crash back in those days was a shipwreck. These people are hidden and will cause death to many.
Tree without fruit – lots of leaves, looks healthy, but the fruit never comes. Big programs, lots of words, looks holy – lots of leaves. I remember actually going to a staff meeting once and someone suggested we pray about an issue – it was like the strangest idea anyone had heard. I didn’t go to any other staff meetings after that, Jesus wasn’t invited either.
Clouds without water – “hooray, clouds, refreshing rain is coming!” but it never does. They always look promising, people flock there because it looks alive but there is never any rain, no Spirit, no life.
Keep yourselves in the love of God.
“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
“And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”
Dean, you might be interested in what the Lord showed me as to just how Adam (man) died. Check out this chapter from a book I wrote:
http://www.ekklesia4him.net/CFTR/how_it_all_began_mans_choice.html
Stella: Perhaps you could explain why you said, “Adam did not pass on to man the sin heredity because he sinned. How do you reconcile your statement in the book you wrote, with what the holy scriptures show us here: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23? I submit to you that all persons have inherited Adams sin and all persons continue to sin until they die. That is why our Lord gave us the precious sacraments of Holy Baptism and the Lords Supper, to cleanse us from sin. The HS shows us our sin and we strive in our flesh to overcome sin, but always pleading the blood of Jesus until the day we die. Suggest you study the church fathers because they say much about this. Peace in Jesus Christ.
Stella, Ole Sorensen, Dean: In Romans Chapter 7 we see the Apostle Paul having difficulty doing the will of God. The Problem was revealed to him by the Lord in that he (as do we all) had/have, “a LAW of sin in his/our members” (Ro 7:23). As long as we strive in our flesh to overcome sin (the law of) we will continually be taken captive as was Paul.
However, praise God, Paul also was shown the answer as to how to be victorious, “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” (Ro 8:2)
This NEW law transcends the OLD law and makes us free from the LAW of SIN (singular) not sins and gives us the ability to walk in a newness of LIFE.
“If you continue in My Word then are you my disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth SHALL MAKE YOU FREE” (Jn 8:31,32).
“Receive with meekness the engrafted word which is able to save your soul” (Ja 1:21b).
Your brother in Christ
Baptism and communion do not cleanse us from sin, they are works. Only Through Jesus Chrst are we cleansed from sin and made whole. Not of works of any religion.
Why did Jesus insist upon being baptized? Why did Jesus tell us to partake of communion?
They do not cleanse us from sin. But, if they were not more than “works of religion,” Jesus would not have been so insistent.
My choice is to just simply follow His example and instruction in baptism and communion. If I don’t, I’m being disobedient to His example and commands.
“Works”? Why should I care? He did it, and said to do it.
Hi Dean: Does the above post I sent to Shelley help you as well? We should care because communion is a way that our Lord comes to us, to give us peace.
Peace, brother.
Shelley:
Here are a few proof texts for forgiveness (cleansing) of sin in Lords Supper and Baptism:
Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper:
Matthew 26:28
“…for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”
1 John 1:7
“…the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.”
Sacrament of Baptism:
Acts 2:38
“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,”
Acts 22:16
“…Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins,”
Maybe you could look up these verses in your own bible and ponder them. Then take them to our Lord in prayer.
Does this help?
Peace, my friend.
Hi Shelley. I did not say that baptism was a work. In fact you twisted my words a bit to fit what you thought I meant.
I hold to (the view) that baptism is indeed work. But it is God’s work, 100% God’s work, 0% my work. I hold to that God works through external means of grace to deliver his precious gifts of forgiveness of sins to me. These means of grace are called baptism and communion.
Would you consider the possibility that baptism is God’s work in me and perhaps that baptism is a life begun in Christ and continues as a daily baptism in Christ until we die? This is the historical church’s doctrine since the time of the apostles and widely held in Christian orthodoxy. And I’m NOT talking about Roman Catholic orthodoxy. So please, do NOT put me in the RC camp.
I affirm that forgiveness of sins is only through faith in Jesus Christ. I hold that no works of mine can effect forgiveness of sin. Baptism is not my work, but God’s work, to and through me not just once, but daily, i.e., mortifying my flesh until I die. By daily baptism I am talking about dying to myself and living for Christ through repentance and by believing (through faith) that He died for me and forgives me of my sins. Now I can have a clear conscience with God and live for Him solely because of Christ’s work on my behalf. This clear conscience is the peace that passes all understanding. (Phil 4:7, 1Pt 3:21)
What works of religion were you referring to, that do NOT save?
Can you find any verses that say baptism CANNOT save you?
Peace in Christ Jesus as you ponder these thoughts, friend.
I tend to agree with the notion that we do not sin because we inherited a “sinful nature” due to Adam’s sin, but rather the nature of flesh in and of itself is sinful.
I didn’t need Adam’s help to do things that are unholy in nature, which things Paul writes of as he continues on, in that beautiful, foundational work that is Romans.
Honestly, I think you and Stella are saying much the same thing, in that you write “we strive in our flesh to overcome sin.” The repentance, demonstrated by this striving, is key.
The sacraments without repentance are a mockery, whereas repentance without the sacraments lacks the essential grace of God.
The point of the chapter is to show how man became a mortal soul through attaining the knowledge of good and evil. This is the context of the sentence you quoted:
This paragraph later in the chapter helps explain:
Romans 3:23 is a part of a long sentence which begins with verse 21 and goes through verse 26. I always like to read the full context to learn what is being said.
I’m sorry, Ole, but I can’t agree with you on your position that we are cleansed from sin through the sacraments of baptism and the Lord’s supper. John chapter 3 makes the gospel message quite clear.
And I am sorry Stella that I cannot agree with your position on original sin nor your your understanding of the Gospel in John 3 which is a clear reference to holy baptism.
Dean, seriously, no one is implying that Adam is still alive. What I meant was on the _day_ they ate of it they didn’t physically die. Day here is not epoch or era, it is ‘yom’ – day. Physical death happened later. What happened immediately was the severing of their relationship with God. Death in all its forms is separation.
Amen! …and interesting point about Jude 1:12. Thank you Stuart.
You’re most welcome. Jude not only mentions this fact but Jesus himself illustrated the same principle in the parable of the prodigal son. Most who teach on the prodigal focus on the Father’s unrelenting love, mercy and forgiveness. That is certainly true, however that might not be the main point of Jesus’ teaching as Jesus repeats himself twice in this passage and we know when Jesus repeats something, it is for emphasis – or even the main point of his teaching. Lk 15:24 reads “my son was dead and alive again…” Jesus then summarizes his teaching using the very same words in the last verse of this parable v.32.
We know the prodigal did not physically die so it must be referring to spiritual death. The only way someone can be made spiritually alive is to be made alive in Christ when an unsaved person believes and is regenerated by the Spirit (1st time). The only way someone can be made alive AGAIN is for a believer to experience spiritual death through refusing to repent of habitual sin – but if he/she truly repents, such a person is made alive AGAIN (2nd time). The prodigal son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father’s house but when he separated himself to pursue a lifestyle of sin. he became spiritually dead. When he repented and returned to his father seeking forgiveness he was made alive AGAIN. Thus I think Jesus’ point is that a believer/child of God can forfeit their salvation/inheritance when they no longer abide and sever themselves from the vine through habitual disobedience. If one repents, God forgives but if one remains in an unrepentant condition one remains spiritually dead.
Great word Kyle,and very well put.!