No wonder there is so much confusion among Christians regarding the timing of the rapture. We have been so focused on getting out of here before the trouble starts that we have completely missed an important key to understanding the end times. After decades of debate, almost no one seems to realize there are three distinct periods ahead, not just one.
BIRTH PANGS
The first period identified by Jesus is called birth-pangs. These include a series of troubling events prior to the start of the tribulation period, including false messiahs, wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes (Matthew 24:4-8, Revelation 6:1-8). Scriptures do not identify the length of time for this period, but I believe it has already started.
TRIBULATION PERIOD
Jesus called the next period the tribulation. During this time great numbers of believers are persecuted, hated, and killed by the antichrist world government. More false messiahs arise. Many believers fall away from the faith and lawlessness increases (Matthew 24:9-14, Revelation 6:9-11).
GREAT TRIBULATION PERIOD
Jesus described the third period as the great tribulation. He identified it by saying, “immediately after the tribulation of those days” (Matthew 24:29) and “then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will” (Matthew 24:21).
This period is also called the day of the Lord. It begins with very ominous events unlike anything that has ever happened before, including a great shaking of heaven and earth, the sun is darkened, the moon does not give its light, the stars fall from the sky, the powers of the heavens are shaken, there are earthquakes, every mountain and island is removed from its place, and the sky is rolled up like a scroll (Matthew 24:21-31, Revelation 6:12-17). It then continues with the rapture of believers and the outpouring of the wrath of God. See my previous post, “Eight Proofs the Rapture Happens on the Day of the Lord“.
So now we can consider the differences between the tribulation and great tribulation.
1. Two Riders on White Horses
The rider on the white horse who received his crown at the beginning of birth-pangs (Revelation 6:1-2) goes forth conquering and causing great destruction during the tribulation. He is an imposter, a false messiah, the antichrist. He presents himself in the imagery of the true messiah to conceal his identity because he is the antichrist.
By contrast, another rider on a white horse appears during the great tribulation. He is called faithful and true. His name is called the Word of God, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 6:12-17 and 19:11-16). He comes to destroy the first rider and his kingdom. He uses a sharp sword to strike down the nations and treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty (Revelation 8-11 and 19:15).
2. Two Different Promises from God
The trouble during the tribulation is persecution and affliction coming from men filled with the spirit of antichrist. They will severely persecute and murder many Christians (Revelation 6:9-11). No one will be allowed to buy or sell without the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16-18). God has not promised to deliver his people from these things. In fact, he promised His people would be persecuted, hated, and killed (Mark 13:13, Matthew 24:9-10, and 2 Timothy 3:12).
The trouble during the great tribulation is administered by angels blowing trumpets. This is the wrath of God, which God has promised to deliver us from (1 Thessalonians 1:10 and Revelation 3:10). Most of God’s people will be rescued by the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18). Another group of 144,000 bond-servants will be protected by the seal of God (Revelation 7:1-8).
3. Two Different Recipients of Trouble
During the tribulation trouble comes upon God’s people as they are put to death in large numbers by the antichrist world government (Revelation 6:9-11). Believers endure great hardships, but it is only temporary.
During the great tribulation trouble comes upon the unbelievers as they are put to death in large numbers. Others are afflicted with painful sores and made sick by bitter waters. The angel Gabriel described the great tribulation to the prophet Daniel as “a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time” (Daniel 12:1). The enemies of the Lord gnaw their tongues because of pain (Revelation 16:8-9). After they are destroyed they are sentenced to eternal torment.
“Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.'” (Revelation 14:9-10)
4. Two Different Sources of Trouble
During the tribulation the source of trouble is men filled with the spirit of antichrist, which is the spirit of the devil. The trouble inflicted is similar to the same kinds of trouble the earth has endured since the fall of Adam and Eve, which includes persecution, wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes. However, the level of trouble is increased during this time. The Lord has not promised to deliver his people from these kinds of trouble. In fact, he has promised us we would be persecuted (John 15:18-20) and we would have trouble, but we can be of good cheer because he has overcome the world (John 16:33). Even so, God does deliver his people from these things sometimes, while other times he allows us to endure them.
During the great tribulation the trouble is administered by angels and released into the earth when they blow trumpets. There were no mentions of angels or trumpets during the tribulation events. John saw the wrath of God poured out by seven angels blowing seven trumpets (Revelation 8-11). The Lord has promised to deliver his people from the wrath to come (Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9).
5. Two Different Vessels Proclaim the Good News
During the tribulation, the primary vessel for proclaiming the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ is the same as it has been for the past two thousand years, the church, the worldwide body of believers. However, the persecution during that time is so severe supernatural protection is required to spread the gospel.
During the great tribulation, believers are removed from the earth in the rapture. However, God provides another vessel to proclaim the good news. That is the mission of the 144,000 bond-servants of God who will be sealed with the seal of God on their foreheads (Revelation 7:2-8). 12,000 come from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. These bond-servants have kept themselves sexually pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes and no lie is found in their mouths. They are blameless before God (Revelation 14:4). The seal of God protects them from the wrath of God so they are not harmed. In addition to the 144,000, an angel preaches the eternal gospel to those who live on the earth and to every nation and tribe and tongue (Revelation 14:6-7).
6. Two Different Locations for God’s People
During the tribulation believers are still on the earth enduring great persecution (Matthew 24:9, Revelation 6:1-11), but near the beginning of the great tribulation believers are rescued out of the earth and taken to heaven (Daniel 12:1-3, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, Revelation 3:10, Revelation 7:9-17).
7. Two Different Durations
The final seven-year period begins when the antichrist makes a covenant with the many (Daniel 9:27). The tribulation occurs during the first 42-months of this period, which is during the reign of the antichrist. After 42 months the antichrist takes his seat in the temple. This abominable act marks the beginning of the end of his reign. It is the last straw, the final abomination, and the catalyst for the start of the next period (Matthew 24:15-20).
The great tribulation begins and ends during the second half of the final seven-year period. It actually cuts short those days of trouble, so the outpouring of wrath must be completed before the end of the seven-year period (Matthew 24:22). We know the wrath continues for at least five months because the locusts released by the fifth trumpet are instructed to harm the people of the earth for five months (Revelation 9:5). So the great tribulation period is a little shorter than the tribulation.
8. Two Different Identities for the Antichrist
During the tribulation, the antichrist continues to hide his true identity from the world. They will be deceived into believing he is the messiah and will worship the beast.
And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast. They worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him? (Revelation 13:3-4)
His identity continues to be hidden from the world until the middle of the seven-year period. Even during the tribulation I believe many Christians will be able to recognize his identity.
His true identity is revealed when he enters the temple and takes his seat, which is called the abomination of desolation (2 Thessalonians 2:3). This event marks the beginning of the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21). The world will finally know he is a fraud.
If the world had known his true identity they never would have followed him, but by then it will be too late because they have taken his mark. They will drink of the wine of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:9-10).
9. Two Different Messiahs
During the tribulation many will believe the antichrist is the messiah, the savior of the world. They will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain (Revelation 13:8). They will willingly follow this false messiah to their destruction.
During the great tribulation all the tribes of the earth learn that Jesus Christ is the true messiah, but even then they refuse to repent (Revelation 9:20). They see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory (Matthew 24:30). They mourn when they see him because they know they are doomed. They hide themselves in caves and among the rocks of the mountains and say to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Revelation 6:15-16)
10. The Antichrist Increases Then Decreases
During the tribulation the antichrist continually increases in power. He prospers in whatever he does and performs his will with no one to stop him (Daniel 8:12). He rises from ruler of one nation to ruler of the world (Revelation 6:1-2, Revelation 13:16-17). He destroys mighty men and holy people. He destroys many while they are at ease (Daniel 8:24-25).
During the great tribulation the antichrist continually decreases in power. He will be broken without a hand laid on him (Daniel 8:25). Complete destruction will be poured out on him (Daniel 9:27, Revelation 17:11). The Lord will destroy him along with all those who destroy the earth (Revelation 11:18).
11. God’s People Are Worn Down Then Given Dominion
During the tribulation the antichrist will wear down the saints of the Highest One. They will be given into his hand for three and a half years (Daniel 7:25). He will strip them of the right to buy or sell (Revelation 13:16-18). He will put many of them to death.
During the great tribulation his dominion will be taken away, annihilated, and destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him (Daniel 7:26-27).
12. Two Different Endings for the Antichrist
After 42 months of speaking arrogant words and blasphemies against God, and being worshiped by the whole world (Revelation 13:5), the antichrist is still not satisfied. He wants to be God. So at the end of the tribulation he exalts himself to the highest place, taking his seat in the temple on Mount Zion and displaying himself as God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). Adding to his long list of abominable acts, this extreme act takes him right to the edge and over the edge. Daniel described it saying “on the wing (the extremity, the edge) of abominations will come one who makes desolate” (Daniel 9:27). The antichrist brings devastation and destruction upon himself and everything around him because of his offensive words and actions against God. He is the abomination that brings desolation.
At the end of the great tribulation the antichrist is arrested and thrown down to the lowest place. He is thrown alive into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, and the false prophet with him (Revelation 19:20). The burning fire will destroy his body and put him to death (Daniel 7:11).
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I’m confused. Revelation 7:14 states…..”These are the ones who died in the Great Tribulation.” Some people think this is referring to the people who have been raptured, but later reference to the “7 year Tribulation” is made. When does the sealing of the 144 thousand take place? The ones clothed in white supposedly died or where raptured before the 7 years yet the great tribulation is referred to here. Remember the Bible doesn’t actually say “rapture”, so when does this happen?
My understanding is that the events described in Revelation 7 include the protective seal given to the 144,000 which they must have because they will remain on the earth during the great tribulation, which follows after the 42-month tribulation. Prior to being sealed, they are protected by the four angels holding back the winds. In the second part of this same chapter, the elder reveals the identity of the great multitude of saints before the throne of God as those who have come out of the great tribulation, which is the rapture of the church. So this chapter shows God’s protection upon His people both for those who will remain on earth and those taken up in the rapture. Then His wrath is poured out upon the earth during the great tribulation.
There is a popular teaching that we are raptured prior to the 42-month tribulation but many scriptures contradict that so I believe it is a false teaching sent from hell to deceive us and those who fall for it will be in danger of losing faith when these things happen and they are still here. Many scriptures warn about the great persecution coming upon the saints before the Lord returns so we must prepare ourselves to stand firm during those days. This is why we must study the scriptures for ourselves rather than relying on the teachings of any man.
James,
Can you clarify to me what time period you consider “the day of trouble”. I was thinking that was Jacobs trouble or great tribulation.
I want to explain why I question, I have heard the Lords voice audibly only twice in my life. One time He audibly said Romans 8:29 three times while I was sleeping. The third time I got up and grabbed my Bible. This was the week I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit during a revival outreach in our home. There were so many manifestations of His presence that week. This was His call on my life. The second time was He spoke “I will visit you in the Day of Trouble”. I have also seen in a personal dream during a winter storm 12:30 Am. Second time I saw a storm or fleeing in winter.
I believe you heard correctly Kim. Thanks for sharing those testimonies.
That was just a general reference to the two periods discussed in this post, the tribulation and great tribulation.
The Lord revealed to another messenger that most teachings on the end times has been inaccurate and then laid out how events would unfold – very similar to how you have just outlined above.
He revealed that the rapture would occur very much at the same time as the 2 witnesses are called as in, ‘Come up hither’. This will be roughly at the sounding of the 7th trumpet.
Thanks for the confirmation Tom.
I am a little late to this discussion. My personal research seems to align with yours in this article. I did have one difference however ,Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 takes the gathering of His faithful one step further than all the other gathering scriptures and identifies this event occuring at the last trump which of course is the 7th trump. Your article seems to indicates this event actually happens at the 1st trump. If I am correct this means the gathering does not actually happen until just before the vials/bowls and believers have to get through a lot more than most understand or even believe. Am I missing something?
Here is a link to a post that addresses your question:
https://z3news.com/w/reasons-rapture-trumpets/
Dear James, Someone asked you to put your Twelve Differences Between the Tribulation and Great Tribulation in a PDF format. Were you ever able to do that?
Here’s the link: https://z3news.com//w/wp-content/pdf/Tribulation_vs_Great_Tribulation.pdf
I agree and testify all in the holy Spirit that all you have said to be true. I encourage you brethren to repent, confess, forgive and love above all else in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour and Messiah. The Lord be with you and protect and provide for our brothers and sisters in America and Mexico during the great tribulation and call upon Our Lord Jesus Christ for he is mighty to Save Hallelujah Amen
http://rightwordtruth.com/a-study-of-the-differences-between-the-tribulation-and-the-day-of-gods-wrath/
Are there two tribulations & where is that in the Bible
As stated in the title, there is the tribulation and great tribulation. Scripture references are shown in this post.
People throughout time have gone through tribulation of some sort. Jesus Himself suffered tribulation for the world. There is a distinction between tribulation and the GREAT TRIBULATION of the endtimes. Read God’s Word and stop reading into it.
Could you further explain Rev. 7:9-14 in relation to #6. Why do you say believers would escape the great tribulation when Rev. 7:14 says “these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation”. To ‘come out’ to my way of thinking means to be in something and leave after a period of time. So to come out of the great tribulation would mean to be present on earth during the great tribulation yet believers would be protected.Please enlighten me on that.
I agree. The righteous must be in the great tribulation before they can come out of it. However, they come out of it, which is how they escape from it. In Revelation 7:1-3, the four angels standing at the four corners of the earth hold back the wrath of God until the 144,000 are sealed and the righteous are taken out of the earth, which is why John saw them standing before the throne of God in Revelation 7:9-17. That passage also explains what they endured during the tribulation and great tribulation, which is further evidence they were there.
Is this a post tribulationist?
The Lord Jesus said, “After the tribulation of those days” (Matthew 24:29-31). I agree with Him.
This is for discussion and for us to consider what we see and how we see; Did Noah come out of the flood?
Some might say he wasn’t in it, some might say he came out of it.
Lord please give us understanding and wisdom!
James I agree with you on most things
We thank God .But we will go through the great tribulation.The great tribulation is different from the wrath of God.
Why will we go through the great tribulation
1.Christians will be raptured after the sounding of trumpets .(I thess 4:16)
2.There is no mention of trumpets in the seven seals kindly check.It is the sound of trumpets that brings rapture.
3.With the fifth trumpet sounding the sealed saints (Christians are not harmed ) by demonic scorpion like creatures but unbelievers are harmed.The fifth trumpet also called the first woe: rev chapter 9 is different from the seven plagues or wrath
4.The sound of the sixth trumpet brings an earthquake.The sixth trumpet is also called the second woe (this is different from the wrath of God, wrath chapter 15 onwards called the seven plagues.
4.The seventh trumpets brings the rapture chapter 11:15-17, chapter 14,the old king James bible.(1thessalonians 4:16) kindly look it up.
5.The confusion is there are angelic interruptions is like a movie flash back.
After the fourth trumpets Christians will be still here and sealed. As I said the fifth trumpets brings scorpion like creatures that couldn’t harm believers. Bible says we are sealed until the day of redemption(rapture) so sealing is once.(Ephesians 4:30). If you take the angelic interruption from the book of revelation the rest of the chapters flows.
So in short
1.Birth pangs (first four seals)
2.tribulation (fifth seal )
3.God judgements on unbelievers and lukewarm to cleanse them and make them repent(sixth to five trumpets)
4.Great tribulation(sixth trumpets)
5.Rapture (seventh trumpets)
6.Wrath of God (unbelievers )
7.millennial rule (Christ kingdom ,devil bound 1000 years)
8.Ezekiel 38 war(armies surrounding Israel)
9.War of Armageddon
10..New heaven and new earth
I agree with you about the day of the Lord extending into the millennium, however, I believe the wrath part could last only 1 year. Sadhu didn’t say the rapture is in 2017. However, significant changes will happen, like the formation of a Palestinian state, the division of Jerusalem and the foundations of the third temple. These events would signify the last week.
Shalom
James I agree with most of what you believe. I refer to the great tribulation as the wrath of God. It can cause confusion because some refer to the Great tribulation as the tribulation and the tribulation as the Birth pains.
The Lord Jesus Christ calls the period after the abomination that causes desolation the Great tribulation (3.5 yrs)Matt 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be” …then after this event is the rapture…Matt 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken”…which is after the 6th Seal. We believe the same sequence of events but define the periods differently. It is possible the day of the Lord (Wrath of God) lasts only one year (Isaiah 34:8). We know it lasts at least 5 months based on Revelation 9:5. I believe the two witnesses begin their ministry sometime around the abomination of desolation and extends beyond the rapture (thats why they are the last martyrs). I also believe the 144, 000 begin their ministry before the abomination of desolation and stay after the rapture. The 144,000 are the man child of revelation 12. They are raptured in revelation 12 to Gods throne for their mission and when they return they accompany the angels that cast the dragon down. Neville Johnson saw this in a vision. The time is much shorter than most think. I know you believe Terry Bennett’s timeline, but events might happen sooner. I heard brother Sadhu say again that he does not see past 2017. He said 2017 is a cutoff point. Shalom
Sounds like we agree on almost everything, which is awesome. Regarding the day of the Lord, it begins with the shakings following the sixth seal and continues with the reign of the Lord on the earth for one thousand years. I discovered this: “Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy living and, looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of of the Lord, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” (2 Peter 3:11-13). So the heavens are dissolved with fire on the day of the Lord, but the first heaven does not pass away until the thousand years are over (Revelation 21:1). The day of the Lord is the seventh day, which follows the six days of man. Regarding Sadhu, just because he has not been shown events beyond 2017 does not mean the end is happening by then. We all see only in part and know only in part. The Lord purposely does not give all revelation to any of us because he wants us to function together as a body of believers. In fact, the scriptures reveal many things that must happen before the rapture and there is no way they are all going to happen in the next two years because they are monumental events that take years to unfold. Please see my previous post, “Ten Things that Must Happen Before the Rapture.”
Hi,
I have a question about #9 above. Your quote from a Bible verse (don’t know which one) says:
During the tribulation all who dwell on the earth will believe the antichrist is the messiah, the savior of the world.
If we (Christians) are here in the tribulation, how can that be when it says ALL who dwell on earth will believe the ac is the Messiah. Will we be fooled too? I hope not. Please address this because I think that is why some people believe in Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Thank you!
Thanks for catching that. It wasn’t clear so I revised it to, “During the tribulation many will believe the antichrist is the messiah.”
Can you tell me which scripture that comes from? Thank you.
“All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain” (Revelation 13:8).
So with the Rev. 13:8 scripture, saying ALL who dwell on earth…we are back to the same question. We can’t change ALL to “many.” The passage says “ALL.” So how can the saints who will be raptured be a part of that “ALL?” I do not have any answers yet for myself on when the rapture will take place, so I am trying to research it myself and talk to others about what they believe. What do you tell pre-tribbers who use Rev. 13:8 as proof we will be gone by then?
The scripture says, “All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain” (Revelation 13:8). So it tells us specifically who it refers to when it says all. It includes all whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world. It does not include those whose name has been written from the foundation of the world. Many people will be put to death because they refuse to worship the beast. “And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed” (Revelation 13:15). So we see there will be those who refuse. They will be hunted and killed while others will be on the run and hiding to avoid being captured and killed. Verse 15 proves verse 8 does not mean everyone living on the earth, but only those whose names were not written in the book of life. Scriptures always interpret scriptures.
James If you have time, this guy’s testimony and breakdown of Revelations (between the trumpets) is the best…….. [ http://sidroth.org/radio/radio-archives/john-shorey ].
Oh, my gosh! Your info makes it so clear that there will be tribulation before i.e.The Great Tribulation. That puts the rapture between the 6th Seal Rev.6:12 and 7th Seal Rev.8 right?
Glad to hear you are getting new insights into the timing of the rapture. I believe the time between the sixth and seventh seals is very short and the rapture happens right after the seventh seal is broken. The book of life cannot be opened until the seventh seal is broken because it is sealing the book. The names of the people taken in the rapture are in that book, so it makes sense it needs to be opened before the angels are sent to gather the people in the sky.
James, please save your articles in PDF format so we can download from our phones for printing.
thanks.
Thanks – it does state this very clearly! I am still wondering… It says when he is revealed. It doesn’t say, when he is revealed AND exalts himself. First question – revealed to whom? Second question- Could this mean that the rapture occurs before he sets himself up in the temple? Can you give me more info as to why you believe it will be at the end of the Trib. but before the Great Trib?
I know I sound like a child…. I realize that it doesn’t matter when He comes- PRAISE GOD HE IS COMING! I only want to be prepared. Prepared to share God’s Word and His plan. Prepared to know what is coming so that I will not be afraid. Prepared so that I can bless and care of others during this time of trouble.
Thanks again for your help!
Paul did not randomly connect unrelated events. Verse 3 is all one sentence, all connected together. “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (the rapture) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3).
Paul was simply expanding on the same event that we have already been warned about repeatedly by both Daniel (Daniel 9:27, 11:31, 12:11) and Jesus (Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14), which is called the abomination that brings desolation. Jesus even said this event marks the beginning of the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21), so it is very significant, a sign to watch for, and a warning to God’s people that when it happens great trouble will begin immediately afterwards. The abomination is that this lawless man enters the temple and establishes his throne there, putting himself in a position that only belongs to God. Paul described it as “takes his seat,” which is another way of saying establishes his throne. Jesus described it as “standing in the holy place”.
It is impossible to separate his revealing from his abominable action because the action is what reveals his identity because we have been repeatedly warned about it. Paul is simply repeating it again and elaborating on it. He is not giving us a vague reference to some other unknown event by which the man of lawlessness will be revealed. That would be confusing and inconsistent with other scriptures.
Regarding your question about who he is revealed to, it is to those who know and believe these warnings. Those who do not know about the warnings will not know what it means. So his identity will not be revealed to everyone, which is why most people will continue to follow him.
Regarding the timing of the rapture, I have posted many articles which are listed here: https://z3news.com/w/end-time-studies/ I recommend that you read, “Ten Things that Must Happen Before the Rapture,” which is also listed there.
Obviously, I would like to believe that we will escape the ENTIRE Tribulation, but at this point I am unsure. I am continuing to study and to try and plant the seed in as many people as I can. I feel that there is such urgency! I have a question concerning “The Restrainer” mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2. If the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit – I believe only God is powerful enough to restrain Satan- and the “lawless one” (Anitchrist) cannot be revealed until He (Restrainer) is out of the way – then wouldn’t you conclude that the church would be raptured when the Holy Spirit was removed? If not – please explain who you feel this verse is referring to. I have begun to prepare for this time of trial and I know as a sinner, I have no right to believe that we will be spared man’s wrath. But as a child of the King, I cannot help but to long for home.
Thank you for showing me a different – eye opening – viewpoint.
Courtney Story
The answer to your question is found in the same chapter you referenced, 2 Thessalonians 2. In verses 1-4 Paul clearly states the sequence of events. The rapture will not happen until after the man of lawlessness is revealed. He could not have stated it any clearer. Therefore, there is no way the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the earth before the man of lawlessness is revealed because he would have to abandon all of God’s people who will still be here until the rapture. A more likely candidate for the restrainer is the archangel Michael who leads the heavenly battles against Satan. Please run from any Bible teacher who ignores verses 1-4 to try to twist verse 6 to claim the rapture happens before the man of lawlessness is revealed. That is an outright lie that will ultimately harm those who fall for it because their faith will be in danger of crumbling when they see these things happening and realize they are still here.
Mr, James Bailey,
Hi. I am learning and reading all of the previous posts. I read Christine Cartwright’s remarks posted on December 2, 2014 and would like to know your thoughts on it.
Thank you so much for your work on this most pertinent topic.
Thanks for reminding me about her comments. I had forgotten to go back and reply to her, but I just posted a reply tonight.
Hi James, thanks for your site and posting lots of information and I am blessed by them. I just wanted to ask though what you thought of 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. I am inclined to think that we are in for the entire thing. God did not take Noah and his family from the flood but helped his prepare and supernaturally protected and provided just like with Joseph and his family during the great famine. I believe God will do the same for us. Also in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. If I am reading and understanding this correctly, Jesus doesn’t come until the work of Antichrist is done which would mean after the 7 years?
Thanks again for your site. I just thought I would bring this up because iron sharpens iron and I am still praying and searching and studying the Scriptures for the Lord’s plan and will for all of us.
This question keeps coming up so I have been writing an e-book to explain why the last trumpet that Paul refers to in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is not the seventh trumpet that John saw in Revelation 11:15. At first I tried to explain it in a comment, which was impossible, then a blog post, which was impossible, and finally I realized this topic is just too big and requires an e-book, which I will offer as a free download soon. The answer has to do with understanding the difference between the ages, which is significant. The current age is the 6,000 year dominion of man, which ends with the resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering together of believers who are alive at that time. All of that happens in the twinkling of an eye. Then there is silence in heaven for a half an hour separating the end of the current age and the beginning of the new age, which is the 1,000 year dominion of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is called the day of the Lord and also the millennial reign. The six days of man and seventh day of the Lord are two distinctly different ages. God has very different purposes for each. In 1 Corinthians 15:52, Paul is referring to the last trumpet of this current age, which has nothing to do with any of the events happening on the day of the Lord, which is the next age. The day of the Lord is not a 24 hour day. It lasts for 1,000 years (2 Peter 3:10-12). That topic requires too many scriptures to list here. However, here is a quick proof that believers are no longer on earth during the seven trumpets. The fifth trumpet releases locusts who are told, “They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads” (Revelation 9:4). We already know the exact number of those who have the seal on their foreheads is 144,000 bond-servants (Revelation 7:1-8). We already know the great multitude standing before the throne is a separate group from the 144,000 because their number was too great too count and they were not all from the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:9-17). If the great multitude was still on the earth the locusts are commanded to harm them since they do not have the seal on their foreheads and are not protected. This would violate God’s promise to deliver his people from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 1:9), which is impossible because God cannot break his promises. That is why we see them standing before the throne in heaven prior to the start of the seven trumpets and that is why the elder tells John these people came out of the great tribulation. They did not stay in the great tribulation until it was over. They came out of it before the trumpets release God’s wrath, which begins in Revelation 8. The great multitude proves the rapture happens before the wrath of God is released. For more on this topic, see my previous post: “The Timing of the Rapture is Revealed by the Great Multitude,” which is here: https://z3news.com/w/timing-rapture-revealed-great-multitude/
Am I wrong in my thinking that the Great Tribulation starts at the signing of the 7 year peace treaty with Israel
and the revealing of the anti-christ, and we see, in chapter 7 verse 14 a great crowd gathered that has come out of the great tribulation. The promise is that we are not reserved for wrath. 2nd part of the great trib.
Thanks James glad to find your site.
Bob
According to Jesus in Matthew 24 the great tribulation begins after the man of lawlessness, the antichrist, takes his seat in the temple, which is the abomination that brings desolation. Daniel 9:27 reveals that event occurs in the middle of the week, referring to the week of years, not days. So it occurs in the middle of the final seven-year period. “And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” The great multitude that appear in Revelation 7:9-17 are the raptured believers who have come out of the great tribulation. They are still on the earth during the beginning of the great tribulation, but are taken to heaven shortly before the wrath of God is poured out. See my previous post, “The Timing of the Rapture is Revealed by the Great Multitude”.
Hi, James, I want to express my appreciation for your excellent analysis of the timeline. I believe you are spot-on, and supported by Scripture. Can you clarify a point? How can “raptured believers” come out of the great tribulation if they are raptured just prior to the great tribulation, i.e., the wrath of God? My understanding is that the saints endure the tribulation, but not the great tribulation. Additionally, when, in your opinion, does the AC require the mark, during the tribulation, or during the great tribulation? Thanks for your input.
Shalom, I am a bit confused with what you wrote in the followings : “During the great tribulation his true identity is revealed when he enters the temple and takes his seat, which is called the abomination of desolation (2 Thessalonians 2:3). This event marks the beginning of the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21). The world will finally know he is a fraud.”
Please note…if the great tribulation STARTS in the middle of the 7 years of Daniel (3.5), which in that time his true identity is revealed and this event marks the BEGINNING of the great tribulation, how can you also say in the beginning of that writing “DURING the great tribulation”? Is it during or the beginning of the great tribulation? I believe it will be accurate to say… The beginning and not during. Regardless, thank you for all your hard work of providing your understanding. Blessings.
You are correct. Thanks for catching that. The abomination of desolation is the trigger event that begins the great tribulation. I will edit the wording to make that clear.
Brother James, I have just found your website and I’m fascinated. First, thank you for your courage in posting your dreams and thoughts. I have been a listener for several years (gave my life to Christ in 1976). Some of what I’ve “heard” disagrees with some of what you’ve posted, but perhaps we are dealing with dual fulfillment here. Tell me what you think:
First, the Lord has been telling me that the accepted view of Daniel 9:27 is in error and for grammatical (a “sh’buim” could be seven of anything–days, weeks, years, weeks of years much as our “dozen” can be twelve of anything) and for scriptural reasons, this sentence refers to His confirmation of the Holy Covenant with the world (“the many”) in the midst of the last week (7 days) of His earthly ministry at the Last Supper; that a covenant must be put into force by the shedding of blood (see Hebrews 9:15-22) and the Antichrist doesn’t do this; that the AC forms a LEAGUE with Israel and the world (Daniel 11:23) which is the Hebrew word HABAR and includes occult power (see Strong’s Concordance H #2266). He’s also shown me that He did indeed put an end to sacrifice and oblation on that night, as His followers NEVER AGAIN SACRIFICED IN THE TEMPLE until its destruction in 70 AD. They knew there was now no need to do this as His sacrifice was the perfect sacrifice, offered once for all for the completion of the Old Covenant.
Second, He has taught me (I think!) that Gabriel divided the 70 weeks into 7 + 62 because the 7 “sh’buim” refers to the timing of His second coming and the 62 “sh’buim” refers to the timing of His first coming (and perhaps this is just the “season” of His coming). I’ve asked Him why Gabriel put the 7 first, and He’s said, “Because I tell the end from the beginning!” Whew. Since both timings are initiated by an “edict to restore and rebuild Jerusalem,” the second coming is timed from Israel’s regaining control (and the right to rebuild) Jerusalem on June 7, 1967. If this is correct (admittedly my hearing is NOT 20/20!), the 7 sh’buim is 17,640 prophetic days (as Sir Robert Anderson taught us to count prophetic time): June 7, 1967 + 17,640 prophetic days = September 23, 2015, which just happens to be Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. Now what exactly this means to us (or Israel) I am unsure; I only know it is a significant day. I too do not “set dates” for the Rapture or the Second Coming, so I’ve wondered if this date begins the Day of the Lord. ???
I’ve always thought that Daniel’s 70th week is divided in half: Jesus Himself completed the first half in His earthly ministry of 3 1/2 years and the Great Tribulation fulfills the second half of 3 1/2 years. The accepted view, of course, is that NONE of the 70th week is fulfilled, that this is the final week jump-started by a “covenant” confirmed by the AC, which he violates half-way through. The sense I’ve gotten from the Lord is that the 70th week is a period of 7 years during which GOD IS ACTING ON EARTH; the first half in His Son Jesus during His earthly ministry and the second half in pouring out His wrath. You seem to confirm this when you assert that God never promised us he would rescue us from the wrath of MAN, just the wrath of GOD. I agree. I can no longer accept the doctrine of a PRE-TRIBULATIONAL rapture; I think He will do exactly what He said He would do: rescue us from His wrath, which is not poured out until the Great Tribulation, the last 3 1/2 years of human history before His reign on earth. I also agree that the time preceding that will be horrific on earth, but will only involve natural events and the wrath of man. What happens during the G. Trib is supernatural indeed. I’m curious about how you reconcile the 70 weeks of Daniel, as your “tribulation” is 21 years long. I’m not saying you are wrong, mind you. I would just like to understand how this fits into Daniel’s prophecy. I concur with you that the Church remains on earth through the opening of the first six seals (the 6th beginning the Great Tribulation) and the rapture is represented by Revelation 7:9. He’s confirmed this for me so many times I’d have to write a book to record all of them.
Whew. I know, these are weighty subjects. He is already preparing me, and has been for several years, to be a refuge of sorts where I am. I do not know if my husband will remain at my side. I do believe my believing daughter and her two children will (her 8-year-old son just gave his life to Christ on 11/26/14!) Her daughter is just 5 months old. We will have food, water, and emergency supplies here. I’ve read your other dream about the U.S. Government planning mass murder, and agree that some of us will remain to minister and serve and help bring in the final church-age harvest. I pray He continues to prepare my heart to walk through any open door He places before me. May He do the same for you, my brother in Christ. Thank you, again, for your courage in following our King!
Sis Christine
Sorry for taking so long to reply. The seventy weeks revealed to Daniel are weeks of years, not days. Here is the scripture: “And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate” (Daniel 9:27). We now have the benefit of hindsight to know the first seven weeks revealed to Daniel were 49 years from the time the decree went forth to the time the second temple was rebuilt. This was explained by the angel Gabriel (Daniel 9:25). Then after another 62 weeks, which means after another 434 years the Messiah would be put to death. That also came to pass in years, not days. Since all of the previous weeks were fulfilled in years, we know the final week refers to the final seven-year period at the end, which has not happened yet. So verse 27 could not possibly refer to the Messiah because his entire ministry only lasted 3 years and he never made a seven-year covenant with anyone. His covenant had no expiration date on it, not seven days or seven years. His covenant is eternal. He also never put a stop to sacrifices or grain offerings because those practices continued for several decades after his death, until the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. The covenant with the many for one week refers to a future seven-year treaty brokered by the antichrist with many nations, including Israel. In the middle of the seven-year period he will break his promise by putting an end to sacrifices and offerings. It sounds like we agree regarding the timing of the great tribulation and the rapture. Regarding the tribulation, I don’t believe it lasts for 21 years. I believe it lasts for 42 months, although the birth pangs that precede the tribulation will make it feel like it is a lot longer.
Have missed your postings. I hope you are back now.
Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate getting feedback. I wish I was back to blogging but I am still working on another project and squeezing in a day of blogging when I can. I hope to return full time next year if the Lord allows me to. God bless you!