A few nights ago, the Lord spoke to me in a dream. In an audible voice, I heard God say, “It does not matter where you live. The storm can NOT touch you.”
For my family and me, this has been a topic of concern because I live on the coast of North Carolina.
In this dream, I was suddenly standing on the second floor of my home with my husband and our 1 1/2-year-old daughter as huge wind gusts of incredible force tore through our home. When I looked around, there was no damage, but we were terribly afraid.
Even though the Lord had just told me we would be safe, I felt the need for us to hide anywhere we could. Mind you, these gusts of wind were so powerful we had to use all our might just to make our way down the hallway, using each other’s bodies for support.
We eventually made it to a room where we crouched down and braced ourselves. I saw an open window. I looked out and saw three storms coming. I don’t know of any other way to describe them other than they looked like tornadoes and hurricanes combined. They were horrific and deadly. Two of them were further off in the distance, so they caused me no alarm, but the third was much bigger and right outside of my home.
I knew there was no escaping, so I looked over to my husband for support and told him and my daughter, “I love you very much.”
At that exact moment, my husband and I realized my daughter was no longer in my arms. My husband was shocked and asked, “How could you lose our daughter?”
I was immediately aware the Lord Jesus had come back in that exact moment before the storm ever touched us and He raptured my daughter! Now, normally I would be fearful as to why I was left behind, but I felt secure and knew there was a reason.
The dream then shifted to a completely different environment. Quite unlike the first portion of the dream, I was outside on a beautiful sunshine-filled day at what seemed to be a cookout. People were smiling and seated at picnic tables and I became aware that I was supposed to be giving a speech of some sort.
I was still out of sorts because of the storms I had just witnessed and because of seeing God’s unfailing love and mercy with taking my daughter, so I began to shout, “JESUS CHRIST IS COMING BACK! THE GROOM IS READY FOR HIS BRIDE! ARE YOU PREPARED?!”
I had this sinking feeling in my chest that my message was not being received. In fact, I felt intense resistance.
The scene changed and God was speaking to me again like at the start of my dream. He shared the following three points with me:
First, He told me, “The devil’s plan is to place so much fear into My people that they lose sight of what is truly important, their relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and the coming rapture, which is now at the door!”
Our redeemer is still in the redeeming business! He is coming back for a spotless bride. Ready yourselves church. Pray without ceasing that we may be counted worthy on that glorious day. Do not be sidetracked!
Second, He said, “Trump being elected was Me showing that I AM STILL IN CONTROL.”
It was like the last sounding Trump(et) to sound the alarm to all Christians that God has a plan and He ultimately wins this war. Teach Salvation to all before that great day.
Third, He revealed to me, “When the saints are called home, it will throw the world into the biggest war there has ever been. It will be utter chaos. Brother against brother. Country against country. Such devastation and fear.”
What I gathered most from all this is that God wants us to be aware that just as sin roams on the earth, God is still living and He is still here with us! He is good and worthy to be praised. Every rock will cry out!
Saints, out of all the preparations you can make for these times, the most important is to prepare a home in your heart for Father God. He is coming soon. Are you ready? Will you be called to meet him in the sky, or will the storms surround you with no hope?
Author
There is no rapture. The Bible says that we will be here during the entire tribulation. The only biblical “Evedence” you have is far fetched.
Regardless of our opinions about the rapture, the Bible is the final authority and it clearly tells us about a coming rapture, even though most English Bible translations do not include the word ‘rapture’. The same idea is communicated with different words, such as caught up, gathered together, or taken away. The English translation comes from the original Hebrew and Greek, so the main thing is to understand the original meaning, regardless of the exact choice of words used in the translation.
The Koine Greek of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the verb form ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagisometha), which means “we shall be caught up” or “taken away”, with the connotation that this is a sudden event. That is the rapture. It is found in many scripture passages, including these: Daniel 12:1-4, Matthew 24:15-44, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, and Revelation 7:14.
In Christian eschatology the rapture refers to the belief that either before, or simultaneously with, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to Earth, believers who have died will be raised and believers who are still alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (the resurrected dead believers) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.[1][2] The concept has its basis in various interpretations of the biblical book of First Thessalonians and how it relates to interpretations of various other biblical passages, such as those from Second Thessalonians, Gospel of Matthew, First Corinthians and the Book of Revelation.[3]
The exact meaning, timing and impact of the event are disputed among Christians[4] and the term is used in at least two senses. In the pre-tribulation view, a group of people will be left behind on earth after another group literally leaves “to meet the Lord in the air.” This is now the most common use of the term, especially among fundamentalist Christians in the United States.[5] The other, older use of the term “Rapture” is simply as a synonym for mystical union with God, or our final sharing in God’s heavenly life generally, without a belief that a group of people is left behind on earth for an extended Tribulation period after the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.[6]
With respect to the rapture, Catholics believe that this event of their gathering with Christ in Heaven will take place, though they do not generally use the word “rapture” to refer to this event. An event that would happen in the second coming of Christ.[7]
There are many views among Christians regarding the timing of Christ’s return (including whether it will occur in one event or two), and various views regarding the destination of the aerial gathering described in 1 Thessalonians 4. Denominations such as Roman Catholics,[8] Orthodox Christians,[9] Lutherans, and Reformed Christians[10] believe in a rapture only in the sense of a gathering with Christ in Heaven after a general final resurrection, when Christ returns in his Second Coming. They do not believe that a group of people is left behind on earth for an extended Tribulation period after the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.[11]
Many authors maintain that the pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine originated in the eighteenth century, with the Puritan preachers Increase and Cotton Mather, and was then popularized in the 1830s by John Darby.[12][13] Others, including Grant Jeffrey, maintain that an earlier document called Ephraem or Pseudo-Ephraem already supported a pre-tribulation rapture.[14]
Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[15] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[16]
Jesse, I was so glad to see you posit the question of pre-trib versus post-trib. This is a subject that has long interested me. Back in the seventies I remember watching a segment on pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib on the 700 club. All three positions were given with supporting scriptures. While it was clear the mid-trib position was the weakest it was also clear there was no clear answer. Very frustrating to someone in their 20’s that wanted answers.
Skipping ahead about twenty-five years to the late 90’s, I ran across someone that has made more sense and seems to have really good answers for this particular quandary. Two raptures. One before and one after the great tribulation. Marilyn Agee writes prolifically on the subject and can answer your questions very succinctly. Anyone can read her ideas on the subject at http://prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com/
Do I believe I’m an expert on this subject? Absolutely not, but I did find peace with my questions on the rapture. I feel the Lord is getting two groups of people ready for His end time finish. I think there are those He is preparing to go into the tribulation and those He is preparing to escape before the tribulation. Hope you are intrigued enough to check it out. –John
John R;
The notion of multiple raptures is contrary to what is plainly stated in the Scriptures. Please consider this passage and accept what it clearly states.
According to God’s Word the Resurrection of the Just is ONE event which transpires at ONE time: The Second Coming of Christ. This is also called the First Resurrection (which Scripture teaches includes those martyred during the tribulation)
Blessings;
Paul Benson
We all will have to go through the great tribulation. Then Jesus will return. I once was taught that secret rapture until God and his Holy Spirit reveal to me that some will die some will see his return. Either way it goes we all need not to be like those five foolish virgins who had no oil for their lamps. A lot of people who grew up in church with me are waking up from the secret catching away. I pray God will open more peoples eyes. See here in Minnesota they’ve already have a chipping center here. Few months ago seen it on the news. The mark is in play. Many countries are now cashless. We all better wake up and prepare Spiritually and Physically.
Antwon, I must say that I agree with you. I was taught pre-trib, but no longer believe it to be true. Many factors in this – the Holocaust, Corrie Ten Boom’s and the Ten Boom family’s testimony, the plight of Christians worldwide who know what true suffering is and have not been “raptured” away from what is torture, martyrdom, etc., and it bears repeating – the Holocaust. I have come to believe that Western Christianity clings to many rather convenient beliefs, that serve our own selfish interests in believing that we are too good to suffer. I can only speak for myself (and this is only my opinion, so feel free to discard it – I am no theologian and not important enough to take the time to debate with), but I, simply, do not believe, that I am too good to suffer. That is the most charitable way that I can put it.
You speak the truth. Its been very hard to convince my family that we’ve been fool to believe in pretrib. I said the same thing about how all those who have Jesus in their heart and died for their belief overseas. Your also right on how the western world will escape Judgement. The western world are the main ones who will lose out from not knowing the truth. God said his people die from lack of knowledge. God bless you and stay strong because 2017 will be a big eye openner for many……..
Antwon, I share your concern for our families. I have some family that literally believe everything the U.S government tells them. Their pastor (and he is truly a wonderful human being and committed Christian) believes it and they believe it, hook line and sinker. It’s enough to, literally, break your heart. And, on top of that, all that their ever-loving government (whom they blindly trust in) doesn’t save them from, they believe they will be “raptured” away from. Have mercy. I don’t know what I’m going to do with them, but I’ve got to try to help them, when the time comes.
Sephora I truly understand that feeling. I mean I can’t sleep at night because my heart is so heavy for my famila
Antwon…Sephora….Shammah: Amen….Amen….Amen. I know this is a hornet’s nest issue. I’ve heard it for over 40 years. So many, many arguments. So I gave up. Just try to nicely say what I believe. To me it’s so clear, but I got tired of fighting. What will really, really, really open people’s eyes is when things begin to happen—you know, tribulation kind of things–like the chipping center in Minnesota you mentioned—and people realize—hey, we’re still here! And so over the years I’ve tried to convince folks. But very soon—–events will convince people—and many will fall away—disillusioned—-just like in China with Corrie Ten Boom. GOD bless all—and Happy New Year!!!
You are on point my brother
You all seem very certain in what you are saying, help me understand a few things:
1) Who is in the sheep and goats judgement?
2) Do you believe we will all be changed as it says in 1 Cor. 15?
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
How does that correspond with the judgement above?
Thanks,
Jeff
Hello Jeff the sheep are God’s true followers who overcome the trials of the tribulation and who refuse to accept the mark of the beast or the image of his name or the number of his name according to Revelation 13. I believe that those people who survive the tribulation at Christ’s return will be translated in the twinkling of an eye with an incorruptible body. The dead who are resurrected will also be changed so as to possess incorruptible bodies.
Thanks for the response Olivia — here’s my point in asking the question, no where in the following verses does it say the sheep are in any different form than the goats. Reading the verses it certainly seems like they are still in their dirt sacks and not glorified bodies. Would you agree?
What is the last trump referred to in 1 Cor 15? I have not seen where it says there is a trumpet at the end of the sheeps and goats judgement. I have a hard time reconciling these two sets of verses to refer to the same event.
Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Okay, once again been reading all these comments – so interesting. I wonder have any of you read this?
http://soundthealarm-wp.weebly.com/messages/archives/07-2016
This dear lady says that we ( who are the true bride) are soon to be changed, our bodies transformed that we may do our final work here in power with no harm being able to come to us. She isn’t talking about the rapture.
I have also read from more than one source of a coming 3 days of darkness after which we shall be changed. Now the Lord has since spoken directly to me about this 3 days of darkness – what I will need, how we must remain inside.
What do you all think of this? I confess, I am awaiting a lot more clarification and I am not yet satisfied with my understanding of final events, how they will unfold. I daresay this is true of many of you. We all have these wonderful insights, pieces of the picture, some have many more pieces than others. Some think they have all the pieces but we must remain in an attitude of teachable humility. Could it be that when the Lord comes for us, some of us will already have been given these glorified bodies to help with the work of rescuing the perishing?
In these final tribulation days I believe that all the little babies will go to be with the Lord. Either they will die first or they will be transformed and go up in front of our very eyes. Because the Lord already knows what each will grow up to be and He chooses the manner of our departure. For instance, where the Bible says we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye – well He is only speaking to those who know Him, the spiritually dead will not be changed will they? We tend to forget that He knows our beginning from our end. But the little ones will be with him because they knew His voice first when He breathed life into them
. One thing I am coming to believe now is that we are certainly not all walking in the power and purity that is available to us now. And those who can not put aside hindrances and habitual sins will not ever walk in this power, and will not survive the trib. They will not finish the race and recieve all their crowns. The Lord will have mercy on these and take them to be with Himself earlier rather than later. I am coming to believe that we are not all the same – as Christians. “To whom much is given, much is required”. There are those who will be saved by the skin of their teeth, those who have lived simple lives with a simple faith. And there are those who will remain to rule and reign in the millennium and there are those who have magnificent mansions awaiting them in heaven and those who have more modest, even unfinished ones. But we will all have been given choices and opportunities here in this life, being all similarly urged to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
Allison; Interesting. I believe Julie Whedbee also mentioned the 3 days of darkness. Was it shown to you as literal (shut down of power and communication) or spiritual? Yes, I agree that we are all trying to formulate a complete picture from the snippets given in the Word regarding a rapture, timing of events, and all the details that we want to know ahead of time. Yet, the primary thing we need to be prepared for is to walk by faith and not by sight, and to know that we hear the voice of the Father leading us.
Susie, I have now had a few communications from the Lord about the 3 days. One was a dream in 2014 which i post below. Another was a specific word literally about what I was to do when it happens, specific to where I live (in Australia). Which I will share later, got some committments now.
DREAM: I was in a warehouse, very large. Lots of big boxes stacked nearby. I am talking to a man, don’t know him but I have just heard that he has taken on a job with the Save The Children Fund. I am congratulating him warmly, patting him on the back. He walks away and after a moment I go after him, he is busy talking with a couple of others and I ask him whether there might be a job for me with the STCF. I had the impression that there could be if I wanted it but I remember thinking over whether they were really a worthwhile fund to be involved with and if I could do any good being with them.
Then I walked toward a kitchen, like in a community hall. On the way in some women asked if I had seen a girl whose name I recognized at the time -she was missing. Then I am in the kitchen looking out the window. I can see a group a short distance away who I know is my family. They are heading toward a picnic rug under a big tree. There are others out there already on their picnic rugs. A wind suddenly comes up, immediately it is very strong, violent. They run to the rug and put it over the top of them selves, which other groups are doing but it is a futile attempt because this is hurricane strength. As it reaches crescendo, in the space of seconds, the daylight goes, it is pitch black. As the light goes I cry out loud to the Lord “if this is it, if this is the 3 days of darkness….” And at this point I wake up, very distressed.
Today, the date is 28th Feb. Our Wedding Anniversary and same day of this dream.
Allison, Thank you for your response. Would love to hear the add’l things whenever it is convenient for you.
Okay, I have looked in my journal for all that the Lord has told me about 3 days of darkness. I would love to hear from others about this – what God has said to them.
This in October 2013:
There will be 3 days of darkness. The great comet is coming, for I have set the heavens in place from before time began. For this day must come as has been foretold in My word. There will be great darkness over the world. The place the darkness will be greatest will be over Babylon. For this is where the trouble will begin. The time of great trouble when the sons of man will face the Lord their God. This judgement must take place. For I am a Holy God and can not look upon the sins of man, he who is unrepentant must face judgement. Therefore the day of trouble will begin with the scrolls containing the Babylon prophecies being bound to a stone and dropped in the river that divides Babylon. And she will be divided. All that has been foretold will come upon her. As for your loved ones in that place, they will see great trouble but I will be a shield and protector of all who have put their trust in Me. Do not fear for them or for yourself. I am the great deliverer. I am a strong deliverer for My people.
When this happens you must stay inside your home. Take inside all that you need for three days. You will have access to water, but there will be no power at that time.
September 2013:
In the final days before judgement comes I will never cease to give opportunity for man to repent and turn his way to Me. Even in the final hours. So I will send the 3 days of darkness and the world will get a taste of what it is like without the Light. Those who do not know what is happening, even those who are part of the church, will begin to doubt everything in their fear and because they have not hearkened to My voice they will not hear it at this time. Many will feel that they have been duped by the church and turn on each other. Because they have listened to the doctrines of man. They are not of Me but they have believed a lie. If they would have turned and inclined their ears and put away worldly things, they would have been ready for this and know the hour of their visitation. Now I will show you the scriptures that relate to a 3 days of darkness.
Revelation4:5 there will be thunderings and lightening like this coming from the throne of heaven.Rev6:2 and I will go forth and conquer. Ezekiel 4:6 bear the iniquity of Judah 40 days.
My Son hung on the cross. There was darkness at the hour He died. He lay in the grave 3 days. And so, when I come, there shall be a reminder of that darkness and that he who does not choose Me chooses perpetual darkness. 3 days of darkness and they can choose life. Last chance.
Now concerning the 3 days of darkness. I will tell you now that the time she speaks of is soon in My calendar. (The she being spoken of is a lady named Bonnie. I asked the Lord about her writings) For you in your time structures it is a tribulation event and will happen before final destruction.
This, in November 2013:
Your family are not going to receive what you tell them about these things. Until events begin to overtake here and then they will hear Me. This is the nature of man. They are in love with the way things were. They wish to preserve whatever happy times they have had. No one wishes to think on these things. There are a very few who will hear what I have to say. This is why many of My children are in ignorance. It is because they would rather stay that way. Ignorance is bliss. But bliss is short lived. I wish My children to be prepared and armed and fully trusting in Me.
You will require lighting. For the darkness will be complete. You will require some food for 3 days. After that time there will be a run on foodstuffs and some panic. Where you are, the tidal wave will not come over your home. The homes on the beach front and in exactly one kilometre will be inundated. So many will need help after this. You are here where I want you at this time. There will be those who come to you because i have sent them to you to answer some questions they have. These will be the ones you are able to minister to. There will be an open door. I will open doors during this time that no man can shut. But other doors will remain firmly closed. Some will reject Me until the last. I know that it is hard to visualize this. But you must trust Me. It is coming. Now the whole earth will be shaken at this time. It will fall off its axis and there will be further shortening of the days. The period of daylight will be shorter. If I had not shortened these days, you, My children would not be able to bear it. It is written. So shall it be.
Allison
(reply to journal entries as our comments can get jumbled)
That is pretty specific to a literal physical darkness. The Lord has had me preparing for a year and half to assist others also, and has not released me from that.
I dream every night/all night, but only know of 5 instances where a dream was from the Lord. I usually just hear His voice in times of seeking Him. The dreams are very different than my normal dreams as they are flash images that are very crisp, usually early morning after I have woken and gone back to sleep. I wake knowing without a doubt it was from the Lord.
In Feb 2016, after asking Him some specific things that week, I had one of those dreams. I was holding an iphone in my hand, with all of it’s colorful icons and the screen went black. I woke abruptly, with a knowing that our communication will go black at some point. That is how he has shown me other things in my personsal life that have come to pass. He gives me a glimpse with a knowing of a specific thing, but when I ask for further details, there is silence.
Right on Susie! We are called to seek God and His Kingdom first. Pre-Trib, Pre-Wrath, or Post-Trib the most important thing is your belief in Jesus, after that it’s all about our relationship with Him. A good steak that has been marinated takes on the smell and taste of the marinade. Need to soak up that Word!
Alison, what’s the scripture(s) for these three days of darkness?
Hi Bob, over the last few years the Lord has spoken to me about 3 days of darkness and the verses of scripture He had me look at were about Jonah – the Matt16:4 reference of an evil generation seeking a sign but no sign shall be given but the sign of Jonah. Jesus went into darkness for 3 days. He came out with a glorified body. Also Revelation 6 which speaks of darkness but not of 3 days. Of course we know that in the plagues of Egypt darkness fell over the land for 3 days. What the Lord has said to me, is He is going to bring another 3 days of darkness to give all a taste of what it is like without the light and a final opportunity to cry out to Him. So I guess you could say after examining the scriptures that there is a pattern / a precedent for 3 days. Now I am no authority and have a lot to learn but when the Lord speaks to me I sit up and take notice.
Please keep in mind I am still working through this for understanding but nevertheless do know the Lords voice and that He has said these things to me and wants me to search it out and to prepare.
I did find this today on the subject and it uses same scriptures given to me
http://www.tribulation-now.org/three-days-of-darkness/
Worth a look.
Let me know what you make of it, Bob. Blessings.
Jeff I’ve always understood the last trumpet as the 7th trumpet which precedes the sign of Jesus coming in the clouds. Of course the bible does not stipulate the exact time of how long it will be between the last trumpet and Jesus’ return but I do not think much time will elapse. Moreover, I am still of the opinion that the sheep and goat analogy is alluding to God’s separation of the righteous dead (who will be resurrected) and the righteous living (who will be translated) from the wicked living and the wicked dead any who have not believed in Jesus when He returns. I am not certain that this judgment will be played out like a court case on earth, rather, I am of the opinion that God is already reading people’s books of rememberance in heaven and that when Jesus returns, the judgment verdict/sentence will be handed down so to speak. I say this because I think when Jesus comes it will simply be a case of His people being raptured in the twinkling of an eye and those who died not knowing Christ will not be resurrected until after the millennial reign where they will face the final judgment and second death (Revelation 20). Of course this is just my understanding of the relevant passages and I do not claim this to be the definite order of events.
Good to see your name back on z3, Jeff. Are you the Jeff that posted that chart ages ago showing the history on FAZ (see below)?…The only reason I ask is because that’s how I remembered your name – I saved the chart. But, you might be a different Jeff. Just asking. That Jeff always asked thought-provoking questions that went against the grain and I think that’s helpful to any community, actually. I’ve learned more in life from the people that disagreed with me, than those who agreed with me – funny, how that works (smile). Not to interject ‘market talk’ into a much more important subject, but I have been wondering where all of the most valuable market contributors have gone from the site (e.g., Julz, Aaron, Bill Weather, Ole Sorenson, etc.) and if any would return to the site as there appears to be a shift in market sentiment.
Anyway, I think Olivia answered your question very well. Great points, Olivia – you hit the nail on the head (smile).
http://www.barchart.com/chart.php?sym=FAZ&t=BAR&size=M&v=1&g=1&p=MO&d=X&qb=1&style=technical&template=
Hi Sephora — yes, same Jeff. Thank you for the kind words. I always enjoyed your well-thought-out posts as well. I hope this finds you doing well!
I took a break for many reasons. There was a period where there were so many specific prophecies about various financial moves and the presidential vote not happening with Obama being the AC that I decided to sit back and see what happened. God is infallible but people are not. I also found the tone of many of those who are anti pre-trib to come off as not very nice. I love a good debate but when someone starts throwing around “heresy” then they have fallen into the same mold as our “tolerant” liberal friends who will only entertain opposite view points as long as it agrees with their view on the matter. Again, people are fallible.
Regarding financials, I have learned over many years of trading options and currencies that when the retail market piles in it is best to be a contrarian. I am positioning myself with various longer term options for a correction/crash. As always, taking profit when I can to cover my investment.
Nice to hear from you Sephora!
I certainly understand your point, Jeff. I left z3 too for a long time – came back only recently. Brother James Bailey has the patience of Job. I do not. Someone has to have that kind of patience, thankfully he does. Have mercy.
Hi Jeff, Good to see you back. Thought of you often.
Thank you serge — good to see you’re still here!
Hi Sephora — yes, same Jeff. Thank you for the kind words. I likewise enjoy your posts! I wrote a previous response that appears to not be allowed. So, suffice it to say the reasons behind my absence are not permissible to discuss on this site. If that is truly the case then I will not be returning as dissenting views are not welcome. I am open to correction if I have misinterpreted my comment that was “awaiting moderation” being no longer available.
As far as the financials are concerned, in my years of trading options and currencies when retail traders pile into the market it is time to take an opposite position. I am positioning with longer term options and will take profit to cover my investment and keep the remaining positions in place.
I hope this finds you doing truly well!
I knew it was you, Jeff – Welcome! Your market expertise is welcome…your thoughts/opinions/observations are all welcome…Iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17)
The below article is thought-provoking, entitled “When Division Becomes Multiplication”. It talks about the disagreement between Paul and Barnabas. It states: “Had a disagreement not arisen between Paul and Barnabas, one wonders (humanly speaking) if there would have been a second missionary journey.”
https://bible.org/seriespage/24-when-division-becomes-multiplication-acts-153-1610
Good people, if disagreement is anathema to you, then may I suggest a few things. 1.) Don’t ever own a business or have a business partner. 2.) Please don’t get married. 3.) Instead, go up to the top of Mount Athos and live as a monk for the rest of your life – oops, I’ve been advised by more than one Orthodox priest that the monks have disagreements, too (smile). In other words, don’t take my suggestions (smile).
And, let us all recall, that timeless and touching moment when Paul accused Peter of being a hypocrite. Gotta love that one (smile). Read your Bible, good people. It’s full of folks who disagreed and managed to survive the experience.
I agree wholeheartedly. I have owned several business with partners, am married AND have children — so disagreement and I have been bedfellows a few times ;). I welcome disagreement and debate and if it goes downhill am always willing to work through offenses with someone who’s heart I know or who is open to further discussion in love. But the interwebs can be tricky as there are lurkers who may be there only to sow discord We must be vigilant as there are things that when mixed with iron make it brittle. That’s why I tend to ask a lot of questions, to find out where the person is coming from and gauge the spirit of their responses in addition to the content.
Good points, Jeff…You are being honest – that’s refreshing. We had gathered a remarkably astute group of market savy folks, with a real heart for the L-rd – for example, Julz, Aaron, and another name Danish, Finnish-sounding name that escapes me right now. I think Bill Weather had some Facebook group called “End Times Investing” or something like that, so some of them may be over there. I don’t use Facebook, but if someone who does use Facebook would like to invite them back – that would be a gracious thing to do.
Nevertheless, the L-rd’s will be done.
I was incorrect about my other post — my apologies to the admins.
Awww thank you very much Sephora…Jeff made a really valid point. I too learn a lot from people who disagree with me/see things differently than I do…often times people can pick up a lot from others even if it’s just thinking a bit more deeply/paying more attention to detail. I find myself going back and searching the scriptures for more understanding. A bit random of me but I wanted to mention that you have a lovely name by the way…I’m going to suggest your name for my sister to name her upcoming bundle of joy (really hoping it’s a girl lol)!
Thanks, Olivia…congratulations to your sister on the little one.
Amen and amen Antwon, Sephora, Jesse and Shammah I agree that there is going to be a period of testing that all believers will have to go through. As Shammah aptly highlighted, some will survive the tribulation by God’s miraculous power, others will succumb to earthly pressures and fear and accept the mark of the beast (to save their lives), and still many others will have to die for their faith. Instead of preparing themselves spiritually for either of these scenarios, pre-trib subscribers reckon they will not have to endure any measure of suffering for The Lord…therein lies the gross danger of that erroneous theory. May God bless you all and may we put our hope and trust in Him no matter what humans may do to our bodies. We know they cannot destroy our souls do we fear only God!
Stay strong my family member in the Lord Jesus. I can’t wait till we all meet in person when our BIG BROTHER JESUS COME AND GET US SOON……
Maybe some pretrb believe they will escape. Many of us are actually expecting great tribulation possibly costing our lives such as many that belong to God have been through including the recent midfle east believers. We simply expect to escape the Great Tribulaion period. But, my job is to not focus on when Jesus comes…but that he comes soon. Such a struggle wanting him to come soon and yet knowing the horror and death that will bring to many. And to remember I may be wrong and have grace to others.
Amen Bonnie! My big sis had a prophetic dream two weeks ago at the same time as I was reading a book concerning the mark of the beast…it was early morning hours and she’s in another country at the moment so I knew without a doubt God was confirming to me about what I was reading. She randomly text me after she awoke from the dream without knowing that I’d been awake reading this book. In her dream, she said she saw us (me, her and a few others) captured by some sort of militia and taken to a large stadium like arena and placed in the centre. She said there were many people in the arena jeering and mocking us and demanding for our immediate execution. Moreover, my sister recalls shouting at the crowd the following words: “THEY (evil world leaders) ONLY WANT TO KILL US BECAUSE WE’RE TRUE CHRISTIANS.” My sister was literally trying to convince the crowd that the only reason why we were wanted dead is because we’re followers of Jesus. That we are and we will not compromise our faith for any man. Our lives belong only to The Lord!
Thank you for sharing your sister’s dream, Olivia…fascinating. I too have had dreams of the coming persecution and have seen myself and others fleeing for our safety. Clearly, warning dreams – so vivid that I could feel the panic in the air and palpable fear, even after waking up. Though warning dreams are rare for me, they leave an indelible impression, that is unmistakeable. I have never had a “pre-trib rapture” dream – not once – though pre-trib rapture was all that I was taught.
Sephora that’s exactly what my sister said about the vividness and panic even after she wakes up from those types of dreams. She’s always had the gift of dreams since she was a little girl with no knowledge of end time prophecy and in 2010 she was having back to back dreams concerning running away from militia who were shooting everything and anything they could lay their hands on. So without any doubt in our minds persecution is coming. I have a strong sense that this year will be monumental. I have been studying the importance of certain numbers biblically and have noted clear patterns and the specificity of God’s usage of certain number patterns as part of he wider story of redemption. I noted that many people thought the world would end in the year 2000 but I’ve noticed that biblically the number 20 signifies redemption. I could be completely wrong but that could point to something significant betwern now and the year 2020. If that’s the case then the tribulation could begin this year. In any case, I’m anticipating the arrival of God’s two witnesses very soon now who will no doubt clear up all this confusion concerning pre, mid or post-trib!
Amen to your comments Sephora. We in the US and other “western” nations, want only to hear what sounds the most prosperous for us. The marketing for decades has been telling us that “we’re worth it” and that every business on earth is there simply to make things work for we, the “valued customer”. People commonly take that same attitude towards God, believing that He should serve us, rather than us serving Him.
People in general will only listen to what will tickle their ears and which will seemingly confirm for them that they’re perfect, just as they are… (The “perfect” of course, have no need of a “savior”…)
Indeed, what makes us so special that we should be evacuated so as to avoid suffering, when more than 29 million of our spiritual brothers and sisters have been killed for their faith with millions more thrown in prison, sent to labor camps, tortured and of course losing everything they own of earthly value, just since 1900?
As Jesus told us, we’re not “outta here” (raptured) until after the time of great tribulation. However, many saints will lose their life for their faith for we are also told in Rev 13:7, that for a time, the antichrist will overcome the saints.
When it all gets into full swing there will truly be ONLY TWO groups of people remaining on the earth: 1) Those that survive by the miraculous Hand (provision and protection) of God, those who are tenaciously working to bring others into The Kingdom. OR 2) Those who follow the world and choose to accept the beast system, in an attempt to save their earthly lives, thereby also making the decision to become the enemy of God – forever.
Stand firm in your faith everyone – for nothing this world could ever offer, remotely compares to spending eternity with Jesus!
He can see the path when we cannot and needs us to be alert and immediately responsive to His commands!
Hello Megan. This is my first time reading of a prophetic dream from you. I am a dreamer also of the Lord. I must share something that came as confirmation for me as I read. I was in prayer during the announcement of presidency. Therefore I did not know who would be the upcoming president. It was a church service for one hour of prayer. As I was praying, close to the end of the one hour, the Lord directed my mind to the election and simply said to me; “It’s Alright Now”. According to the time of that word from God, they must have announced the results. A peace covered me. By the time prayer was over and I had made it home, I learned that Trump had won. The Lord began to have me share with others that seemed disponded that “It’s Alright Now”. One thing about God and his children is he will not lead us astray nor apart. We are one in the Spirit. Thank you for sharing!
Megan, wow, I didn’t know you are Katie Troutman’s daughter, until I was rereading her comment a few minutes ago. I guess by now you’ve discovered that folks have differing prophetic viewpoints. Opinions are like bellybuttons–we all have one. I just wanted to say that I think it’s awesome that you are sharing your dreams and visions like your mother. GOD bless you!
This is the first time I have ever heard someone else share a vision where they were left behind in the rapture for the purposes of teaching non-believers about Jesus and the path to salvation! Several years ago, God showed me the same thing–that I would be left behind, along with a group of others, and it was because we were to teach those who were still here. This is my job; what he created me to do, and what he’s spent my life preparing me for. Over the years I have heard just a couple of prophets suggest that the rapture might be a multi-step process, that sort of comes in several waves, but it has only been two or three. Those few also said they felt the time between these “waves” was a time where an expanded group of people would have time to repent and be saved. I believe God has also shown me that the rapture will be quite different than what we expect. Thank you for posting this!
Ken Peters saw some graves explode in his dream.
So many forget the rapture includes a resurrection!
Revelation 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Here we have the FIRST resurrection – (Is not the rapture a resurrection of the dead in Christ? One reason the term rapture can cause many to forget the dead in Christ rising is a HUGE event)
The context of this passage has Tribulation saints (those killed by the beast) included in the First resurrection
Now if the rapture (which includes a massive resurrection of Christians (~2000 years’ worth) is not the first resurrection what was? The Word says first, not second.
That is a very interesting observation that I had not thought about. As I said above, I feel the Lord has led me to understand I will still be here after the rapture, and I have been very upset about that for some time to say the least. I had no idea what that could mean–and especially, did it mean I am not saved? I will think hard about whether what I am feeling is that I might be ministering to others AFTER the rapture happens, possibly in a resurrection body. And maybe not everyone who is raptured will return to be seen on the earth, or to minister here. This has been a great burden for me, one that I have just had to leave with the Lord. It will be interesting one day to see what the rapture turns out to be! Thank you for this insight–it has given me something important to consider!
I feel I really need to say this. If you have two totally different beliefs about the timing of certain events—can they both be right? If one person says this will happen 7 years earlier, and another says no, it will happen 7 years later–can they both be right? If one person says “Jesus said this…” representing one viewpoint, and then another person says “no, Jesus says this”. And they both give you several paragraphs of what they say Jesus said—and yet they contradict each other, what does that mean? Is Jesus confused about when He is coming back? Does He sometimes think it’s before the Tribulation period, and at other times does He think it’s after the tribulation period? Would the LORD Jesus Christ tell two different people—in a long conversation—two different time frames for the same event? Does it matter which time frame is correct? If one person says, “Don’t worry—just be ready for the LORD’s return when He comes, and He will snatch you out so that you will miss all of GOD’s wrath!”, but the other person says, “Be ready for the LORD’s return, and settle in your heart that you are willing to go all the way for Jesus, willing to suffer persecution, willing to be locked up in camps, if it happens, and willing to refuse the mark of the beast–even if it means decapitation”…which person should you choose to believe? Common sense and logic dictates that both positions can not be right. And yet one person says Jesus said this, and another says Jesus said that. And I understand brother James Bailey has an open forum here that entertains various viewpoints so that people can decide for themselves, which is a good thing. And now, after saying all this, I don’t know what else to say.
Everyman is free to express whatsoever “they believe” they have heard from the Lord ….. it is up you as a christian (your duty) …. to go seek clarification from the Holy Spirit …. to confirm to you the truth of the matter ….. we have no one to blame but ourselves if we fall prey to deception because the bible already instructs us to “test the spirits” 1John 4:1
Jesse, man will always fail you.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English Psalm 146;3
Do not trust a prince or upon a son of man, for there is no salvation in his hand.
I personally believe we will go through some things. God has shown me so much. -But at the same time I could be totally wrong. We have a belief system , God can say one thing and we can perceive it totally different.
I understand the teaching form wonderful men and women of God. I love Jim Baker , Michael Snyder, John Shorey and so on. I have great respect for them as our shepherds and believe they are mighty men of God.
I was taught pre trib as an “American” I have come to fear that it may be much different than we were taught. -But I still believe it could be and I hope for it.
I hope that just as Noah was saved by the Ark he built and the instructions by God that we will be spared. Whether that is being taken to Heaven immediately I do not know. Maybe it’s that He, will be our ark of refuge in the midst of these perilous times. I don’t know the day or the hour. It appears we are in the season.
God can use dreams to save us, convict us,encourage,warn and so forth.
maybe at 17 ,my dream from Him about rapture had to be relayed the way He choose to relay it. Maybe seeing all the other things so young in life wasn’t a good move at that point the way I was wired and the tribulation I was already in. Maybe for Megan He choose to speak this way.
People have beliefs and they are usually set in them. I realize that I am so ignorant that it could be either way or something in between. I understand every point of view through looking at the scriptures and the teaching that’s out there. What I know for certain is this Jesus is coming back and I need to be about obeying Him and conforming to His ways every single day. I don’t want to be caught off guard when He comes like a thief in the night.
Some form of life will be continuing upon His return, according to His word.
Luke 17;34 KJ21 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Matthew 24:40-41
40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
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Luke 21;36
Watch also at every season, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man.”
One thing we can all agree upon , Sister Katie, Is that we need to be ready, laying aside every sin that besets us, and living a holy life—-and witnessing to others. Amen. Thank you for your wise, kind and thoughtful remarks. GOD bless you.
Amen to that Jesse! That’s all it’s really about. Living holy, obeying Him and bringing others to Christ.
Hey Bro…… Some people confuse His second coming……where He literally touches down on earth and remains here for a 1000 years to Reign…….with Him coming back to the atmosphere…..to claim His Bride-where He doesn’t touch down on the earth…….He appears for a brief second in the sky, in the invisible realm……to snatch us up. I know you probably know all of this……but there is no confusion with most Christians who believe in the literal and obvious meaning of plain Scripture. Albeit there are many man made church doctrines which weigh in against this because they have a control agenda……..Shalom to all persons here……..
Steven;
You said; ” there is no confusion with most Christians who believe in the literal and obvious meaning of plain Scripture.” I agree. And I can clearly show where that standard dismantles the hoax of a pre-trib catching away of the Church. I have many articles on my blog which do exactly that. You should also check out the writings of James Bailey on this site.
The gathering together unto Christ of the Church takes place at the Second Coming AFTER the tribulation. Plain Scripture. There are no Scriptures describing a previous ‘secret’ or’ invisible’ coming. There are no verses teaching the Church leaves the earth at the rapture. Jesus has returned when that happens. He shows up visible in the sky, catches away the Church, and then descends to earth with his Bride, Then is the Supper (which the Word describes as the Battle of Armageddon! Revelation 19) He is here to stay. We don’t go any where bro.. You have been misled in your end-time beliefs.
Respectfully yours In Christ Jesus;
Paul Benson
Sir……Do you think this is the first time that I’ve heard your position? Mark 13 and Matt 24 are talking about the Natural branch of the Children of Israel and the Gentiles that are left behind. If those born again Christians living till the end were then caught up to our own atmosphere to meet the Lord in the air-just to return back to the earth in a glorified body, where would the marriage supper of the Lamb take place? Do you think a million Christians are going to sit around on a physical table in Jerusalem? Do you think the judgment seat of Christ will be on that physical throne in Jerusalem-where then the Lord would “one at a time” Judge His Saints from Jerusalem?……Then what about the Promise of Jesus…..that He will prepare a place for us in Heaven…..a Mansion?…..If your scenario is true……..we would not get to see the Father until after the 1000 year reign of Christ is finished. Also, when Jesus comes back to the earth…..all the redeemed people will be with Him in their glorified bodies, there would be no one left on earth to re-populate the earth in their flesh bodies during the Millennial regin, because for when He returns, He is going to execute Judgment on those that upon the earth…… meaning death…………for the redeemed will have already have risen to meet Him…………there are more reasons that these to why your philosophy is wrong, but just because you say so, doesn’t mean that you are going to be believed or convince anyone. Respectfully…..Brother Steven
Stephen;
Where do you get the idea a post-trib return leaves no one to populate the millennium, but a pre-trib return does? That makes zero sense. Do you think the timing of the catching away affects the wrath of God poured out at the return of Christ? Why would a pre-trib rapture leave people to repopulate the earth, but a post-trib return would not? Could you explain that please?
Jesus will destroy the wicked at his return, but not every one on earth at that time will be wicked. Is Jesus going to destroy innocent children. Or the foolish virgins who were unprepared?
Endless arguments with two people who are fixed in their positions is pointless-we are intransient …..We read the same Scripture and see two different outcomes. Grace and mercy be upon your position dear fellow.
whether it is pre-trib …. mid trib …. post trib ….. or pan fried trib …. it matters not ….. what matters is that the bride makes herself ready so that when her heavenly groom appears …. she will be found worthy to go with Him to the wedding of the ages ….. ” so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish”. …… “And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming” …….. “that you may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,” Ephesians 5:27 ; 1 John 2:28 ; Phillipians 1:10
It matters not? What about those who have been told they will not face Antichrist and the mark of the beast whose faith falters in that day; or those who give place to that deception because of a mistaken understanding from being taught a bunch of unbiblical garbage. Does that matter to you?
Like I said …. IT MATTERS NOT ……… why you say? ……. because at the end of the day …… “the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment” ……. “for he guards the course of the just and protects the way of his faithful ones.” 2 Peter 2::9 ; Proverbs 2:8
May I agree with what most are saying on here, is that the Lord
Jesus Christ is coming back soon. whatever soon means to him. I was awaken one morning with the audible voice saying,” I am coming back soon with my angels.” this is what I heard and a couple of days or a week later I was awaken again with the sound of horses stampeding through my bedroom.
Hello Michelle;
That is a very interesting experience. Thanks for sharing it. It definitely is in sync with the Scriptures. Jesus will return with all his holy angels!
One of my articles refuting the pre-trib rapture hoax deals with the false notion the armies of Heaven dressed in white who come out of Heaven with Jesus at his return (Rev, 19:14) are the previously ‘raptured’ Church; and not the angels of God as multiple other passages show they certainly are. Maybe this article would be of interest to you in light of your experience.
https://pbenson.me/2016/05/20/who-are-the-armies-of-heaven/
Grace and peace to you sister;
Paul Benson
I do not believe in pre-trib either, but I believe the saints will be used by God to execute vengeance on the nations and the judgment recorded in scriptures based on Psalm 149 and Joel 2.
5 Let the godly ones exult in glory; let them sing for joy on their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand,
7 To execute vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples,
8 To bind their kings with chains and their nobles with fetters of iron,
9 To execute on them the judgment written; This is an honor for all His godly ones. Praise the Lord! (Psalm 149:5-9)
Hi James;
I could be wrong (wouldn’t be the first time I missed it!) in my understanding of Psalms 149. But the premise of my article on Rev. 19:14 was to show that the notion this is a reference to the Church is error; as it would mean there had been a previous rapture before the Second Coming. It is unsupported (as usual) pre-trib theory whereas there is strong and multiple witness of Christ returning with all his holy angels, and then upon his visible appearance in the air, he now gathers his Bride unto him. This is the proper understanding, as you also teach, of the catching away of the believer.
I find I get much good feedback addressing these different facets of the pre-trib error individually; and showing the lack of Scripture foundation for that particular element of their theory. This strips away, point by point, the idea the pre-trib teaching comes from the Bible. Eventually some folks run out of steam and say ‘hey maybe the pre-trib teaching really does not have the Bible behind it’. I rejoice greatly in such testimonies, as I am sure you do as well.
Thanks, as always, for your work at Z3.
Paul
I believe this refers to believers, but does not mean the rapture happens prior to the tribulation. Psalm 149 refers to them as His Godly ones. Psalm 149:8 says they bind their kings and their nobles. Angels have no kings or nobles to bind. Joel 2:2 and 2:5 specifically describes them as people.
thanks Paul
As I reread what I wrote I realized I left out part of the words that I heard that morning, “God said I am coming back soon with ten thousand angels.”
“And yet one person says Jesus said this, and another says Jesus said that.”
So it behooves us to examine just exactly what did Jesus say? In Matt 24 Jesus describes his return as a one-time event where all the peoples of the earth will see his coming on the clouds in the sky. Does this sound like the rapture which is a supposedly secret and invisible event? Rapture advocates get around this dilemma by acknowledging that this refers to Jesus’ 2nd Coming which is a visible event but the invisible rapture is a separate event which precedes Jesus’ return – when Jesus comes as a “thief in the night.”
It this be true, why then did Jesus’ disciples ask Jesus in Matt 24:3, what will be the sign of your coming? The disciples understood that Jesus will return but once as they referred to Jesus’ return in the singular “coming” not plural “comings.” If they were wrong about Jesus only coming once at his 2nd coming after the great tribulation, then one would normally assume that Jesus would have taken the opportunity to correct them at this point. Jesus did not – so we can assume that the disciples were correct in their understand that Jesus comes for the saints only once- at the end of the great tribulation.
Rapture advocates teach that Jesus’ coming as a thief in the night occurs before the 7-year tribulation when Jesus will secretly come as a thief to steal away the saints thus saving them from all tribulation. So again, did Jesus teach just when he comes back as a thief in the night? Read Rev 16:15-16. Jesus himself stated that he will return as a thief right before the battle of Armageddon. The rapture advocates teach exactly the opposite.
Even if one believes in the rapture, one should not discount the possibility that one could be wrong and thus one should still prepare spiritually, mentally and physically in order to persevere, overcome and not shrink back from the faith. Rapture teachers do not allow for this possibility, leaving their adherents potentially unprepared for what lies ahead. Tragically, many will fall away from the faith.
so, in light of your understanding of how you believe the rapture will play out …… how do you explain the following text …… “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.”
Rev. 3:10 NLT
Cliff, the Greek for the word “keep” is to “keep, guard, observe, watch over”. (Strong’s #5083). The Lord will watch over those who persevere, not necessarily be taken away. Our God is able to “guard” those He chooses during the time of trial.
Scriptures to consider:
2 Thessalonians 2
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Again here we are told the “coming of our Lord and our gathering together unto him will not happen until:
–the falling away
— the man of sin is revealed (again the Daniel verses from above) This is the anti-christ going into the temple (Prior to His return)
Revelation 20
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Here we have the FIRST resurrection – (Is not the rapture a resurrection of the dead in Christ? One reason the term rapture can cause many to forget the dead in Christ rising is a HUGE event)
The context of this passage has Tribulation saints (those killed by the beast) included in the First resurrection
Now if the rapture (which includes a massive resurrection of Christians (~2000 years’ worth) is not the first resurrection what was? The Word says first, not second.
A famous Canadian Greek scholar (in his 80s at the time read this passage in the Greek. He was amazed he never saw this prior- the First resurrection included tribulation saints. Interesting indeed.
I know some will say we are not subject to wrath – and that is true – but cannot God protect His own from the wrath even while here? I think so!
For the Rev 20:1-5 verses- I see the first resurrection as the main one (big one including all dead in Christ) as the Greek for “first” is “prótos”: definition: first, before, principal, most important.
If this is the “most important” along with the “first” meaning I see this as including the most Christians as in the Bride of Christ being raised which would indeed make it “most important”.
Thayer’s Greek Lexicon on this Greek term (used in all places, not just this one) Pending on the grammar this Greek word also can mean “first of two”
So, the resurrection of the bride of Christ (rapture – as it includes those living being “caught up”) is indeed the “most important or absolute first”. For such a big deal I think it would be mentioned – and this seems like the most logical explanation due to the original usages in the Greek.
Matt, yes! …. while the Lord can preserve His people in the midst of the trib …. an evacuation or removal prior to the start of the “great tribulation” is the ultimate promise that he gave to the church …. if that is not so how else can the parable of the 5 wise virgins make sense since the foolish virgins were left behind and the wise were taken unto the marriage of the Lamb….. “And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut ….. Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.” Matt 25:10-12
Yes, Cliff. There has to be a very good reason for an anomaly such as the rapture to exist and there is a worthy cause: the escape of the church, Luke 21:36. The world will receive the 21 judgments fro God not His bride.
In Rev 3:10, God promises to keep those who persevere specifically from the “hour of testing.” So the pertinent question is what does this “hour” refer to? If we can determine the “hour,” then we can determine if this refers to the rapture or not. I believe the “hour” specifically refers to the judgment and fall of Babylon and the nations as described in Rev 14:7-8; 18:10,17,19. God will protect the faithful when his wrath falls upon Babylon. This will take place at the final battle of Armageddon which takes place at the 7th vial/bowel when the angel proclaims “it is done” as God’s wrath is poured out as described in Rev 16:17-21. It important to note that Jesus returns as a thief to retrieve the saints right before the battle of Armageddon in Rev 16:15-16. That is how God protects his saints from that “hour” – which refers to the fall of Babylon which takes place at Armageddon at the end of the tribulation – not at the beginning of the tribulation as rapture adherents believe.
Cliff,
Relatively speaking, only a few Christians survive the tribulation. I believe the hour of testing is during the 42 months of the Antichrist and the mark of the beast choice. Revelation 13.
“He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon.” Daniel 11:41 NKJV
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.” Matthew 24:15,16
“Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.” Revelation 12:6
This Biblical safe area is the mountainous wilderness of western Jordan, south of the Arnon River (Wadi Mujib), where Petra resides, and MAYBE(?) representative of other safe areas around the world.
Very true & Father sent me here six years ago today. HalleluYah!!!
Hi Cliff;
Here is a link to an article I did refuting the notion Rev. 3:10 is a promise to escape the time of ‘great tribulation’. That notion does not bear up under the scrutiny of the full counsel of God;
https://pbenson.me/2016/06/07/the-promise-of-revelation-3-10/
Blessings;
Paul Benson
That notion surely bears under the scrutiny of God’s counsel …. you will not be able to see it if you’re unwilling to see it ….. At the appropriate time when the Holy Spirit chooses to open your eyes ….. then you will see ….. until then we just watch and wait upon our savior ….. “pray that you may be able to ESCAPE all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36
Amen, brother Cliff.
The rapture is a real event recorded in many scriptures, including these: Daniel 12:1-4, Matthew 24:15-44, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, and Revelation 7:14.
There are no scriptures describing the rapture as a secret or invisible event. The reference to the thief in the night only applies to those who are in darkness because for those who walk in the light it will not come like a thief, as shown in this passage:
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. (1 Thessalonians 5:4-6)
The rapture is the same event described in Matthew 24 when Jesus appears in the clouds. That passage specifically describes the gathering of His people together in the sky.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
31 And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31)
Amen, James. Thank you for clearly spelling out what The Word says regarding the rapture. I’ve done extensive study on this, and it’s very clear that there is no secret “catching away” when one *properly* examines the scriptures.
The lord guided me to psalm 50 3-5 – he comes in a storm with clouds,wind and fire – then Christ gathers his people before his wrath is sent to the world. I think it happens at the beginning of a pole shift when the earth’s rotation is slowed, or stopped. For this reason, we can ‘t measure time to fulfill the prophecy
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit ONCE, born in a manger ONCE, was baptized ONCE, died on the cross ONCE, rose from the dead ONCE, and is coming back for his bride ONCE (NOT TWICE, the thief in the night is for those who are asleep and unawares).
So I am assuming that we are in agreement that the “rapture” and the 2nd Coming are the same event.
Hi Jesse, this is exactly why we must all draw near to the Lord that we might be able to hear His voice clearly for ourselves. We must ask Him to show us the meaning of the scriptures and to give us that witness in our spirit when we read or hear something – that we may know if it is the truth. Getting to the truth is not so simple as we would like it to be. We must search out these matters. We are told to study to show ourselves approved of God. But if we try to do it with our own understanding and world view, living less than holy and repentant lives, then our conclusions will be skewed. We leave doors opened in our lives that the enemy may come in and deceive us. Sometimes we so want somethng to be true that we don’t even realise we have chosen to believe it, over what is really the truth! Take all these questions you have and hold them up before the Lord one at a time and allow Him to speak to you about them. God does want us to come to the truth, but we are not always ready to hear it. Many times recently, the Lord has told me that I was not ready to hear the truth about something – He was unable to speak to me about it. I would not have received it! Wow! That’s not so good!. We must ready ourselves in humbling ourselves before Him, truly repentant. Any pride – ie thinking we know more than the next person -is going to get in the way of hearing The Truth. God is not the author of confusion. If there is confusion, it comes from the enemy. It means he has access to decieve us through some door we have left open. I have come to understand that this is all a process. So I encourage you to stick at it. Its time to go to the throne room and remain until you have the answers you seek. I suspect that some people come to these pages looking for support for their own beliefs. That is operating in the flesh. It makes them feel good about themselves. So the number of likes on a comment does not necessarily equate with how much truth there is in it. These pages can be so very valuable and encouraging to us all, but they can be equally dangerous and misleading if we approach them wrongly.
Very well spoken Alison …. God bless u daughter of the Most High!
Thanks, Allison for your comments. The whole point of my post is that two conflicting viewpoints on the “rapture” can not both be right. They’re 7 years apart. I’m not confused, in the sense that I have decided which is right. The enemy authored the confusion for sure. As the late Corrie Ten Boom lamented over 40 years ago, people were deceived. In the early 1900’s American missionaries went to China preaching the gospel—the pre-trib. gospel. They were told not to worry about all the judgements of Revelation because they would be raptured out before bad things happened. Then the communists took over, and subsequently millions of Chinese believers were murdered. Corrie says because of that many turned away from the church believing they had been lied to. This according to Corrie Ten Boom. So you see, Allison, it’s not just a matter of differences of opinion—pre-trib, post- trib—it’s a matter of properly preparing GOD’s people for what is coming. Read and study about Corrie Ten Boom to see if I said it right or not—it’s been many years. Thank you very much.
Yes Jesse, Gods people must surely answer to Him regarding what they have said and done in His Name. We are all responsible directly to God for what we tell others and whether we have spoken the truth. If one does believe in a pre-trib rapture then one is not going to prepare anyone for what is coming are they? Pre-tribbers can be kinda “I’m all right Jack, I’ll be outa here”. And there is something not right about that right there! But I could not see that before – having been raised as a pre-tribber. I don’t doubt that many were turned away from the church as Corrie Ten Boom says. But they too must face the Living God one day and He will ask them why they did not come directly to Him for the truth! So, in all of our preparing of people for what is coming, we must constantly be urging them to go directly to the Lord. It is from HIm that our help comes.
Amen and amen Alison you speak so much wisdom and have summed up this matter so very well. How can we prepare God’s people for something we ourselves are not preparing for? Very very profound. All must go before the throne of grace with confidence that God will reward those who diligently seek Him with the truth they are after. God bless you and Happy New Year!
Thanks momma Katie for taking the time to share a brief bio on Megan’s life ….. its truly a remarkable testimony on the life of a young woman ….. especially in this perverse and adulterous generation …. May the light of Christ keep shining brighter and brighter in and through her life.
Thanks Cliff, just need to put this out there too , Megan is far from perfect. She has things that she struggles with. Those are her strengths. Gods hands are on each of our lives and we can get as much out of our experience on earth as we want from Father , Jesus and the Holy Spirit. In fact that is His desire for each of us. He promises as we draw close to him, he will likewise draw close to us. He also says he is a rewarded of those who diligently seek him. We are to make him our delight!He really will give you the desired of your heart. Life isn’t perfect but it’s a gift. He’s given us each so,many treasures to unlock through His word and following His ways. It’s up to us to choose the good portion daily. Our choices create our tomorrow’s! His word will never change even in tribulation! God bless you!
Absolutely amen!!!
Corrie Ten Boom firmly, and frequently, stated in her preaching that she believed those who promote the pre-trib rapture teaching were the deceivers of the last days Jesus warned of.
Amen, sister Alison!
Amen!
This is who my daughter is as a Christian and the record she has kept with God. I don’t believe, and I know you all have not said this and I do understand what and why you are saying what you are saying.
That being said, I don’t believe my daughter is pre trib mid trib or any other position. I know she is Jesus led. I believe Jesus will come back when He has set to do it and if anyone has that day or hour please let us know. That would be great information to have. Even Jim Baker being from a post trib position says, ‘ I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think so.’
I do want to share my daughters track record with you so you can know who she is as a person and how God has used her so you can know that it is a real possibility He has said this to her and then you might understand why so many people liked something that was said. Perhaps,Jesus is comforting His bride.Maybe Jesus amongst all the wars , tsunamis and so forth that have been shown to us. Maybe He speaks comfort to His children as well. I know that He does. The only thing I personally would EVER come against prophetically is repeated false dates coupled with words of things that don’t happen. -But I am very leary of dismissing something from that could be from the Lord.
This is who Megan is and why I know that God speaks through her.
Like, I said at age 5 she came into the kitchen one morning while I was cooking her breakfast and said “Mommy, the angels of God were in my room all night.” -And tounges immediately came out of her.. She said, ‘Lady, we need to pray” (NEVER had she called me lady before only mommy) A fierceness in the spirit I saw my daughter rise up and she began to go room to room and break generational curses of abuse and called out Spirits of witchcraft and rebuked them from our family line.
My children,when they were little played church, not house and so forth but they played church! I would walk past my 3 year olds room and hear them with their tamborine worshiping the Lord and singing praise songs to him. Megan would pray for people as a child and prophesy certain things and they all came to pass. She was set apart early on. All of Megan’s life people told her she looked like a model. as a teenager she looked ALOT different than she does now. She’s getting ready to give birth to her second child now. She began to have people stop us in the beauty salons, mall and various places offering her modeling jobs. Megan turned away every thing offered to her each time including at the end an apprenticeship in NYC and modeling rolls. She’s a really tall girl 6 ft. She said this is dabbling in the devils kingdom and she didn’t want to be around the sin involved that it would feel yucky to her and she knew that it was not God’s will for her life.
Megan had every boy chase her down and come knocking on our door. She resisted. She was a lonely teen ager. She could’ve been in the “in crowd” easily. They would all line up and invite her to things but she stayed home by choice through teen and adult years and consumed her bible. Megan, read and read and built a relationship with the Lord. Megan and I used to work together for a time and when I would pay her for her work, we would go to the toy store and buy toys with her money for poor children. Megan took every dime of her pay and would give it away to the needy over and over again. She would take paychecks and take the little girls who were being picked on at school and buy them the things they needed at the mall. She would take them shopping and not keep one dime for herself and spend $300 like it was nothing to give them a good time. We volunteered with the elderly, homeless on a regular basis.Visit the hospitals and pray for people every Sunday. This isn’t to toot anyone’s horn in fact I kept our bios short for that very reason. I could have ladled it down with things she has been involved in. I am only saying this because this could very well be God speaking through herandIwant you to know who she is and her walk before you judge it Megan gets words of knowledge and dreams that all come to pass. We have interceded off of those dreams and the people lived or died and got saved. It would take too long to give one miracle after another and how the Lord uses Megan.
She has cast out demons out of people as a teenager. She is a Seer. She would also divide up her paychecks at 18 years old and give them to different ministries saying “Mom, I couldn’t pick just one. It’s so exciting to help in this area or look at the one I paid into this time. I’m so glad my seed went into the ground here” the Lord uses her in preaching and teaching and the first thing she does before even giving a message is explain what the Holy Spirit is and ask if anyone wants to be filled and saved. The first thing. She imparted that conviction to me as a youth! Do you know what Megan’s fun time was as a child and teenager? Mom come get in bed with me let’spray and see what God says!.She still does it today! We skype and she says I can feel God moving let’s don’t get off yet we need to linger , he’s speaking mom. I could go on and on. NOT because she is my daughter but because she really is his daughter and He truly uses her. So when every one tests the spirit on this and you talk about doctrine and belief. Which is NORMA Land you should .Just want you to have this info on Megan’s life and character and walk with the Lord. Oh,one more thing, on her own Megan a s a teenager when it was really important to look good went through a phase her senior year of no makeup, threw her shorts away and began wearing skirts in order to be modest. She through much prayer believes it is alright to wear makeup now. And a personal vouch for her dreams.I was praying one morning and reading the book of Samuel. i prayed in my bedroom and asked the Lord to heal my heart bc i saw where the lord gave a new heart , a heart of flesh. I said Lord the heart remembers I am sure please give me a brand new one.I went to wake Megan up and she said “Mom, I just had a dream and God showed me a live, beating ,heart.and it was on a surgeons table. the table was steel and the live heart was beating and sitting it on it.” God’s going to give this heart to someone mom , I think it’s so and so’s parents. she had been praying for her friends parents to get saved but I knew from just 5 minutes earlier that heart was for me!!! These are the types of super natural things my daughter witnesses through her relationship with Jesus. Do I believe Jesus spoke to her? As someone who knows her, YES, I do but this is nothing new for us. It is for each person to judge as you stated for themselves. The prophetic ALWAYS should be. I just wanted you and everyone to know who she is and take it form there. I felt led to write this.
See with Jesus,there is a blessed hope. i don’t know a date, time, year or feast cycle You know, I haven’t been told and I am no scholar. That is plain to see. My boast is in the Lord Jesus Christ and Him only. . -But something tells me, it ain’t over till the trumpet blows and as for me and my house we will continue to serve the Lord.
Katie,
Thanks much for taking the time to write all of that about your daughter (and you). I am certainly more than INSPIRED to hear the history of your daughter. It is absolutely amazing and wonderful!!
Thank you Peggy, love you sister.
Thanks, Katie, for the beautiful defense of your daughter. She sounds like a very godly young lady. I don’t believe ANYONE on here was thinking otherwise. I have four daughters, and I would defend them also. That being said, I hope you weren’t speaking to me. My strongest remarks were directed to Allison, who seemed to suggest that I am somewhat confused by what I believe. I AM NOT CONFUSED. With my first post I was trying to gently suggest that there are 2 (or more, actually) views on the LORD’s return/rapture/? I was not trying to be so dogmatic, but using the Greek philosophical approach of asking questions. This method can encourage us to think. Then Allison SEEMED to suggest that I was confused and that I needed to pray so that GOD would explain things better. And so I then felt compelled to ratchet up my comments so that she and others would realize what I was trying to say. With ALL due respect, NO ONE was attacking your daughter. I wish all of my children believed what your daughter believes and were that close to the LORD. I think that is AWESOME. And so, getting back to the discussion, when pressed, I came back with what I believe. THANK GOD we are still free to express our strongly held Christian beliefs. And thank GOD for brother James who has this site where we can do just that. No one here is forced to believe what most others believe—at least not yet. GOD bless all involved, and may all have the best New Year ever!!!
Hi Jesse,
I absolutely was not speaking to you! I understand your position and beliefs. I actually understand everyone’s position. I just wanted to state that Megan is not a pre tribber,mid tribber or post trib She’s just a lover of Jesus and believes she has a message straight from the throne that people are getting side tracked and tunnel vision and that Jesus wants us to know that He is coming for us and to remember the most important preparation is to make room in our heart for our sweet Lord . I think you are an awesome loving Christian brother and I never meant anything more than to testify to Meg’s character so that people would know that she lives it and God works through her.There is nothing wrong with anything you said or anybody else for that matter. Please talk it out ,be free. This is the way it should be. Nobody should just believe something I say, she says or anybody else for that matter! Seriously there’s nothing wrong with any of the discussion! You have valid points.I don’t know when He’s coming back myself.
Thanks,Katie, and as you said so wonderfully—the most important preparation is to make room in our hearts for our sweet LORD. Absolutely. If we’re ready to go—living a holy life to the LORD—then whenever He returns—before, during, or after—or tonight!—we will be—OK! Thank you, GOD bless your whole family and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
God bless you and your family Jesse! Happy New Year!!
mmm yah. totally blessed. I am not a pre post or whatever also, i am just waiting for HIM who is coming. even the Bible says even the son does’nt know time but the Father only. So may the good Lord prepare us for anything, make us ready for anything. whether He comes after or before what, that is really His business. if tribulation finds us, then let it find us ready and strong in the Lord, If Jesus comes back before that then may He found us ready and holy so we may not be left behind. AMEN
Katie, I so love your spirit. Thank you for sharing this. I feel I know you and your daughter better. Amazing testimony. I, up until a year ago believed pretrib. I’m not so sure anymore but I’m leaning toward prewrath. The one thing I have a hard time reconciling is God’s work with the church and his work with Israel and Daniel’s seventieth week. I’ve always been taught that Daniel’s seventieth week is God dealing with Israel and that the age of grace we are living in is the church age in which all nations come into the family of God and that once the church is complete, God will complete his dealings with the nation of Israel during the final week that was determined upon them cited in the book of Daniel. I definitely believe the rule of antichrist and the great trib happen during Daniel’s seventieth week. That would make it pretrib if that is the correct timeline but that would mean Jesus does come back and remove his church before the great tribulation. I have trouble reconciling because in the book of Matthew, it clearly says he comes after the tribulation of those days which would put us prewrath. That would mean he would come twice. Anyway like I said I’m not so sure anymore. The scriptures clearly say when he comes, he will come with clouds and every eye will see him. When he left in the book of Acts, having been caught up in the clouds, the angels said he would come back in the same way they seen him leave. His coming has always been a source of debate even before he came the first time and I believe it will continue to be even after he comes the second time. I just want to be ready whether he comes at even, or at midnight, or at the cock-crowing, or in the morning. Blessings to you and your daughter!
Lydia, I love your spirit too! Thank you so much for sharing your thought process and where you are in all this. You always bring a smile to my face when I read some of your comments. i really do connect with you when I see what you post. Love you my sister!
Thank you Katie and Meghan, and Lydia, I am probably closest to your explanation in what I believe. It may also be that even if we are just here for “birth pangs”, we may think it is the ‘official tribulation”, because as American Christians, we really aren’t used to getting our hair messed up. 🙂
The one area that I AM more cautious in with a lot of the pre-trib teaching is the idea of a 2nd bus coming for those who don’t make the first cut in a rapture. I cannot reconcile that in the Word, so I tend to only discuss His “second coming” (as in coming back one time), because I don’t want to teach that there is another opportunity later if it turns out there is not.
Be ready.
Lydia;
Many are hit with confusion over the mistaken notion the purpose of the tribulation is to ‘deal’ with Israel. This is pre-trib theory, and comes from an improper understanding of Election. Separation or dispensational theology (from which the pre-trib error comes) teaches God deals with the Jewish nation apart and separately from the Church in these days. The claim that the Jews are God’s elect in this day NOT the Body of Christ is a gross error; and reeks havoc on a persons understanding of end-time matters.
This is not in line with the true teachings of the Bible. it sounds complicated but it can actually be comprehended in a very simple fashion by a careful reading of Romans 11. Just read it and believe what it says. It completely opposes pre-trib theory. The Jewish and Gentile believers are ONE MAN in Christ.
Here is an article which explains this is a simple easy to grasp fashion:
https://pbenson.me/2016/10/31/the-elect-of-god-today/
Hope this helps. Blessings and grace to you sister;
Paul
Thanks Paul. It was very helpful. Im just curious as to what your thoughts are concerning the 70 weeks spoken of in Daniel that was determined upon the nation of Israel and how that last week plays out if God doesn’t deal with them separately.
Lydia;
There are several different theories on that issue but I do not have one I would promote as doctrine as we don’t have sufficient Scriptural foundation for that. I speculate that perhaps Jesus; 3 1/2 year ministry may have fulfilled the first half of that week and the manifestation of the Sons of God during the final 3 1/2 years of this age may fulfill the second half? Again merely speculation.
Blessings;
Paul
Katie, thanks for this background! It does speak. The gathering of God’s elect and the second coming of Christ is so mysterious yet. It’s meant to be this way, I believe, just as with His first coming. In spite of what all the prophets had foretold, when it finally happened it was so different from what anyone imagined. That made it all the more glorious.
Personally I thought I had at least a basic understanding of the manner and timing of the gathering/second coming, but God has taught me to humble myself as a child. I still search for knowledge but am now content if He only shows me what I need to know personally, my ‘slice of the pie’ so to speak. I believe the whole pie will be an amazement to all of us and fodder for lots of conversations and laughter in heaven. Daniel after all that was shown him had to say, “I heard, but I understood not.” And John the Revelator was not even allowed to reveal everything he saw (the things uttered in the seven thunders.) God retains His honour.
Recently I asked God about some things He was showing me (powers which some of us will operate in in the coming time) which were not against scripture, but I questioned with Him: If this is so, why isn’t there more emphasis on this in Revelations? He answered that night with another dream about these powers, and in the final scene I saw a
long rectangular hard plastic tube which was showcasing Christian books. I couldn’t see either end of the tube but the middle was open. It held books, and the books were on a movable part inside so that you could push them to the right or left with your finger, and you would see more titles scrolling by. I did not see either end of the tube, so that it seemed there could be a potentially endless number of books in the tube. The titles were being read out loud as I scrolled; ‘Joy of the Lord’ was one, ‘Jesus is Our Strength’ was another; I can’t remember the others. Then I woke up and knew immediately that the last scene was an illustration of John 20:30, 31 as well as John 21:25. A pleasant and sufficient answer to my question! God bless you, Katie, along with Megan and your whole family.
John 21:25
“And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”
John 20:30,31
“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
Tasha, you are a delight…such wisdom! I loved reading your comment and about your dream! Thank you so much for taking the time to share that. Seriously that’s exciting!! God bless you too Tasha, and your entire family! Love you sister….I’m excited for what He showed you. I felt the desire to stock up on books several years ago. To give out in those times and to be able to study for a home church. You’ve inspired me to bring them out now and begin reading again. Thanks Tasha!
Katie, your daughter sounds like an amazing woman of God. I was wondering if you could ask her to pray for me. I have been really ill over the last few months, going for hospital tests next week. I have been too physically drained to engage in spiritual warfare. I believe it is an onslaught from Satan during this most important of times. I live in an area of great spiritual darkness and he is keen to remove me from the scene as one of the few beacons of light. This site is a wonderful way to connect with the body of Christ all over the world and ask for their prayers. Thank you.
Kay, I will keep you in prayer. I have been there many times. Get into the word, God’s word is your defense in times of weakness. He will see you through!
Thank you Nancy. Just as you must have been posting your message I had a warm sensation in my body so I checked my emails to see if I had a reply and your message was there. Praise God!
Kay, we love you sister and feel for you. We are both praying for you.
I want to encourage you to speak God’s word over yourself and to thank him for healing your body. Especially when you feel the worst. That’s when I always thank him for healing me. It will manifest. Fight everything in your life with His word. Before you know it , it will manifest in the physical. Love you so much sister Kay. Lord bless you this evening!
Katie, thank you so much for your prayers and sending love. It has been so hard lately. I live in an area where there are no spirit filled churches and I have no Christian friends. Committing my life to Christ recently I am on my own with my 18 year old son who is also the only believer amongst his friends. Such a special boy. As an inexperienced Christian needing support and instruction this site has been such a blessing to me. It is wonderful to see so many brothers and sisters operating in spiritual gifting. Please pray to increase my faith for healing at this time. Due to my illness I am unable to read for long periods of time but I will listen to my audio bible and pray that God’s word will manifest in my life. Thank you again. God bless.
Kay, I can relate. It’s hard to be alone and see your children alone. -But am so thankful for God saving and setting us apart as I’m sure you are. You are doing the right things. Just always persevere and no matter what this life brings, never give up. He loves you so much Kay, and your son too!
I love you Kay and can’t wait until the day we can meet each other in glory! May God richly bless and protect you in Jesus name!
You have no idea how much your kind thoughts mean to me. God bless you for them. I look forward to the day when we meet on that beautiful shore.
Hi Katie, I sense the situation now is just like 2000 years ago the Jews confuse over the Messiah prophecy. They think Messiah is either the suffering one, or the conquering one or there are two different Messiahs. I believe we already know the answer. Regarding to the rapture scripture which generally believe (pre, mid or post), are we already experience the dilemma what the ancient Jews face about. Is it possible all are correct but will manifest in different way? I dare to say nobody have the full detail about the rapture even the endtime event. Like some servants of God say there are several possibility how the endtime event play out. Some will be fulfilled in spiritual or in secret behind the scene (only prophet and seer know), some will be manifest through general public.
If we only “believe” when we “see” the thing take place, then there are big probability we will miss something that take place out of our sight!!! That’s why Jesus ask us always prepare for His coming as He know we cannot see the whole picture. To be honest, by record majority are misfired when come to the prophecy fulfillment. All we “think”, we “guess”, we “assume”, we “believe” generally fall apart then we will “O I SEE” after the event took place. That is the WISDOM OF GOD (as King Solomon said).
Good point. As I see it, rapture of the Church following persecution of the Church. Then conversion of the 144,000 Jews (torch goes back to the Jews as God/s witnesses). They are raptured midtribulation after 2 witnesses are raised from the dead. At the end of the tribulation there is a resurrection but the one’s alive at his coming stay on earth to reproduce the next generations.
Hi, I read from the last sentence of the fourth paragraph, where you state that your daughter went from room to room and broke generational curses of abuse and called out spirits of witchcraft and rebuked them from the family line,
I am interested in learning more of this prayer and breaking of curses from the family line. I want to incorporate this type of warfare prayer in my prayer devotions. Could you help me by pointing me to such prayer approaches?
Thank you.
Hi Adla, if you are born again and filled with the Holy Spirit you have authority over the devil and all of his tactics in your life and that of your family. Back then,I didn’t understand the power we possess as Christians. At the time my daughter did this I was 22 and learning. I know that it was God through her and that His Spirit was moving.
You have power as a born again child of God to cast out satan and to turn situations around in your life. Everything is subject to change through your sincere , whole hearted prayers to God and your declarations.
The bible says we overcome the devil, through the BLOOD of the Lamb and the WORD of our testimony.. Revelation 12:1. Also, 2 Corinthians 10;4 The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
One of our weapons is our mouth and the words that come out of it.
Proverbs 18;21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits.
Also, Psalm 33:9
For He spoke, and it came into being; He commanded, and it came into existence.
Another weapon that would apply to this situation is Fasting and prayer. Mark 9:29 And He told them, “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.”
You just take authority over the devil and command him to take his hands off of you and whoever you are praying for. You bind the devil and you loose the holy Spirit into the persons life according to Matthew 18:18
“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Ask the Lord to deliver you from the evil one and to keep you from temptation. Basically just attack his (devil) kingdom and hold on your life harder than He comes at you. It works in every area in your life.
Your words are powerful, resisting sin and living holy, spending time with God, forgiving your enemy’s. All of these things work in our lives for our good. It’s not just one thing but a culmination.of everything He instructs us to do.
As you live and walk with the Lord, an anointing will increase and flow through your life. It will touch others and change each of us individually. The key to it all is obedience to the Lord and His word.
Again speaking His word over our lives and the lives of others is what sets us free. God’s word does not return void but it accomplishes what he pleases. Also if you ask ANYTHING according to His will it will be done for you. There are so many scriptures and so many promises we could go on and on. I want to urge you to spend time alone with God and ask His spirit to take control of your life completely. He will lead and guide you into every area you ask Him to teach you on and more. He is the BEST teacher. All you need is FAITH in God and all things are possible to you!
*Take Authority over the devil.
*Prayer
*Faith
*Confession
*Fasting
*Living Holy
* Pursuing God
*FORGIVENESS
Also if you ever encounter the need to forgive anyone in your life and your not sure how to completely forgive this is how. You take ALL of the anger and hatred you feel towards that person and place it on the DEVIL where it came from to begin with. Ephesians 6:12Berean Literal Bible
because to us the wrestling is not against blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Unforgiveness will not only keep you bound and hinder the Lord working in our lives but Jesus can not forgive us if we don’t forgive. So we are in danger of Hell.
*Forgive
*Pray for our enemy’s like we would pray for ourself
(Pray til you love them!)
Hello Ms. Katie! I was wondering if you and Megan could pray for me? I was diagnosed with anxiety a few years ago. There’s a prophecy page on Facebook that I follow, and I am intrigued by/ interested in the prophetic. But I will read comments or headlines that talk about the timing of the Rapture and for some reason they will make me anxious. I am a Christian and know that I can trust in God, and I know where I’ll be going. But these comments will still set off an anxiety in me. Plus I will think about the time concept of eternity and it almost makes me sick (because I can’t wrap my mind around that concept) and will almost make me stop what I’m doing because I will just dwell on it. So I guess what I’m asking is if y’all could pray that I feel perfect peace about these things?
You bet Chandler! Praying for you right now. I want to encourage you to speak God’s word over your life. Find scriptures to combat what your’re having problems with. Like, 2 Timothy 1:7 for instance: For God has not given us a spirit of fearfulness, but one of power, love, and sound judgment.
By walking in right relationship with the Lord and getting all sin out of our lives and away from our midst. We can stand confident and proclaim His word over our lives and it WILL manifest. You are creating your life and taking control over the enemy in your life and the lives of others through what comes out of your mouth! For example, when you are in experiencing the problem ,speak out God’s word over your life.Do it when you wake up , the middle of the morning,afternoon and before you go to bed. Just as much as you can. Faith comes by hearing and by hearing the Word of God! Also,Proverbs 18;21 GOD’S WORD® Translation
The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love to talk will have to eat their own words.
Dominate for God in your life Chandler. Don’t just take anything the enemy tries to make you receive. You absolutely don’t have too. Fight everything in your life with God’s word and don’t ever give up! Hold on tight to your Lord and Messiah Jesus!
It is written in the Holy Bible that not even the angels in heaven know when Jesus return is only the father knows. Jesus gives clues by teaching what will happen before his return. N9 one only the father knows the day or the hour. Only to be prepared.
Thank you Jesse for saying this! i kept looking and everyone ignored the elephant in the room. there is no biblical support for a pre-trib rapture. i have searched and searched. i find Jesus Himself saying in Matt 24, AFTER the tribulation of those days. . . . we often add onto what He says what we want to hear. The Rapture Verdict by Michael Snyder is an excellent book that looks at more than these two viewpoints [there are more than two theories about when!] and backs up everything with scripture. we need to be as prepared as possible. only with the Lord’s help will we stand and not fall.
Amen, Diane. You wonder…What part of “Immediately after the tribulation…” do people not get?
Megan, I know you already know this but I thought this was worth sharing. Sometimes, I don’t know quite what to make of everything myself. When I was 17 and pregnant with you, I had no clue about who Jesus was. The only information I knew was that He was a baby in a manger at Christmas time.
I knew nothing about His return, trumpets sounding and Him returning in the sky. I possessed absolutely none of this knowledge of our Lord.
Well, one night while I was sleeping I had a dream about the rapture….only I didn’t know what the rapture was….until that night.
In the dream my friends and I were at the mall. It was a normal sunshine filled day just as He showed you in one of your scenes. We were in a store and we had “stolen” some makeup and put it into our purses. When all of the sudden , we heard trumpets sounding and it seemed so eerie sounding to me at that time. Now , I would rejoice! -But it was so eerie and alarming sounding. I ran out to the street to see what was happening. The sun was shining,the streets were packed with people trying to figure out what was going on. It all happened so fast. There was an Angel in the sky that blew a trumpet and Jesus appeared in the sky, the clouds rolled back and they parted for His entrance. Before I knew it He was on the street standing right where I was. Jesus as a grown man, was standing right before me and I knew who He was in the dream. I was also made aware that I had sinned against him and couldn’t go with Him. He looked at me with the kindest eyes and said , “See you next time around” I woke up sweating, shaking and under conviction and my journey toward finding God began that morning.
I can’t help but wonder Megan, what will the day look like that He returns for us? I’m willing to bet Megan, that none of us have it pegged. Every time in my life that I thought God would do something important a certain way, it never turned out to go the way I thought it would go. He really has made me aware of that. His thoughts are not our thought and his ways are never our ways. We have to live every second like it’s our last, and pray always, that He will forgive us of our sin and that we will be counted worthy , as the scripture says to stand before the Son of man.
I love this. I love how God reaches out to his children even before we know him. He is so faithful to gather his children under his wings. It’s beautiful to see such a bond between a mother and her daughter. Blessings.
Katie,
That was very powerful. Thanks for sharing.
Megan, thanks for sharing.
Blessings to you both!
Thank you for sharing your valuable dream experience, Katie. About the rest of your post, how true! Corrie Ten Boom once said about God, “The more I get to know Him, the less I understand Him, but the more I love Him”. How awesome is our Lord and Saviour!
Lord i Repent, forgive all of my sins.. wash me daily and make me ready for the coming of the Lord. Thank you Ma for the wakening. God Bless
Such a word of encouragement for the saints and great warning for those who are playing around in the world. It will catch so many off guard. Thank you for sharing this amazing dream.
I noticed Jesus said the word rapture. I have to say this dream was not from the Lord. You see rapture is NOT in the Bible. There is something called the catching away.
Also when your husband asked ” how could you LOSE your daughter” that would signify she is not saved!
The scriptures were originally recorded in Hebrew and Greek, so technically, using your logic, the Lord would not be allowed to say anything in English, including “the catching away.” If we allow Him to say English words with the same meaning as the original Hebrew and Greek, then He could say rapture or catching away since they both mean the same thing.
There are many words not recorded in the original languages of the Bible, including automobile, airplane, television, and Internet. Is the Lord not allowed to speak about any of these? Of course He is allowed to speak about whatever He wants, so your reasoning is flawed.
Also, based on the scriptures revealing how God is righteous and just, I do not believe He sends innocent babies into the fires of hell. The shedding of innocent blood is one of the things God hates (Proverbs 6:16-17).
Hi Jesse, “LOSE” someone maybe can be interpreted into martyr or rapture, depend on what you believe. I still remember prophet Neville Johnson say God is busy finding GOOD SEED to be martyr so to set free people through the blood of saint. His daughter is one of the chosen one and now is in heaven.
“When the saints are called home, it will throw the world into the biggest war there has ever been.”
Yes, when Jesus comes like a thief what follows is the battle of Armageddon. “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one watching and keeping his garments, so that he should not walk naked and they might see his shame.
And he gathered them together unto the place called in Hebrew Armageddon” (Rev 16:15-16).
The word rapture is not in the bible,sorry so its a mans tradition.look for yourself.its not there .kjv
There are no English words found in the scriptures because they were written in Hebrew and Greek. Every English word we read in the Bible is a translation of the original languages, an attempt to communicate the meaning using different words from a different language. So we can communicate the same idea with different words, including rapture, caught up, gathered together, or taken away.
The Koine Greek of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the verb form ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagisometha), which means “we shall be caught up” or “taken away”, with the connotation that this is a sudden event. That is the rapture. It is found in many scripture passages, including these: Daniel 12:1-4, Matthew 24:15-44, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10, and Revelation 7:14.
James, Indeed! Just as the word “rapture” is not in the scriptures neither is the word “Bible” but we don’t argue concerning this word. Thank you for your steadfast love of our Lord and balanced approach to providing your thoughts!
Amen, thank you James.
May, 2017, the winds begin
I have long wondered if the great tribulation would be a Rated-R affair — no children under 17 admitted…if all children from say the Bar Mitzva age of 13 (age of reason) and under including pregnancies would be raptured — leaving everyone completely bewildered and in deep grief besides dealing with the millions of adult disappearances.
This is off-topic, but I couldn’t resist sharing this beautiful letter written on
Christmas Eve, 1513.
Within Our Reach: Joy
BY FRA GIOVANNI GIOCONDO
I salute you. I am your friend, and my love for you goes deep. There is nothing I can give you which you have not. But there is much, very much, that, while I cannot give it, you can take. No heaven can come to us unless our hearts find rest in it today. Take heaven! No peace lies in the future which is not hidden in this present little instant.
Take peace! The gloom of the world is but a shadow. Behind it, yet within our reach, is joy. There is radiance and glory in darkness, could we but see. And to see, we have only to look. I beseech you to look!
Life is so generous a giver. But we, judging its gifts by their covering, cast them away as ugly or heavy or hard. Remove the covering, and you will find beneath it a living splendor, woven of love by wisdom, with power. Welcome it, grasp it, and you touch the angel’s hand that brings it to you.
Everything we call a trial, a sorrow or a duty, believe me, that angel’s hand is there. The gift is there and the wonder of an overshadowing presence. Your joys, too, be not content with them as joys. They, too, conceal diviner gifts.
Life is so full of meaning and purpose, so full of beauty beneath its covering, that you will find earth but cloaks your heaven. Courage then to claim it; that is all! But courage you have, and the knowledge that we are pilgrims together, wending through unknown country home.
Fra Giovanni Giocondo (c.1435–1515) was a Renaissance pioneer, accomplished as an architect, engineer, antiquary, archaeologist, classical scholar, and Franciscan friar. Today we remember him most for his reassuring letter to Countess Allagia Aldobrandeschi on Christmas Eve, 1513.
This fills my heart with hope and with anticipation. It also lends to the idea of the ones who are ready……will go…..and the ones who are unbelieving in a Rapture or who are lukewarm might be left behind, therefore… there will be those who are called Christians in the Tribulation……who will know the TRUTH of God’s Scriptures and then will hold on tight to Him even unto the death……Let us all keep our garments spotless……and our hopes on the MOST HIGH GOD.
You shine with God’s love. Let’s pray for more young people completly consecrated for Jesus!
Thank you Megan for this beautiful word of encouragement. ” Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man”, Luke 21:36
“For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming”, 2Thes. 2:7-8.
sad sad news
https://twitter.com/TEN_GOP/status/814643253840670728
California Democrats legalize child prostitution.
No way!?
Replied to child prostitution
I just looked it up. It’s cited by the la times. New law says- “Children can no longer be charged with prostitution, given the high incidence of human trafficking of people younger than 18. Adults who perform or solicit prostitution would not face mandatory minimum sentences.”
we pray, it will be overturn . it is lawlessness
if anyone can interpret the law ? very confused ,thanks ,
it looks evil
Spot on my sister and powerful! Please read the code blue experience I had and shared on here as well. Mr. Bailey posted it a few days ago. Especially the part you referenced about not being received! The church is asleep and does not want to be awakened!
Kinda like when you are in a sound sleep and someone wakes you earlier than your flesh wanted. You kinda get mad and just want to be left alone so you can go back to sleep but they keep nudging you and sooner or later they are pressing you and before you know it they are making so much noise you can’t sleep anymore. Some won’t wake until the noise is very intense and then they will get up in a panic and BE RUSHING TO GET READY.
Marlon, after reading your article I read of a similar word somewhere else. So I decided to read the book of Titus again as I couldn’t recall what’s it about (besides the Scripture verse you mentioned). I was surprised to see that nearly the whole book is an admonishment for us to be ready for our King.
Paul also mentioned about a man who is divisive, saying that if he doesn’t repent he is “SELF-CONDEMNED”! (Titus 3:11) (The word ‘self-condemed’ stood oit to me). As Katie said in her post above, we need to continually search ourselves to be ready at all times.
How beautiful it is for brothers and sisters in Christ to continue to uplift and encourage each other in these very perilous times we live! We all need it!