Have you ever seen those guys that can bend over so far they can almost stick their head up their behind? That’s what we have to do to believe in a pre-trib rapture.
Pre-tribbers take scriptures that are obviously describing the rapture and claim it is not about the rapture. Then they take scriptures that make no mention of the rapture and claim it is all about the rapture. They are spreading confusion and need to stop.
One of their favorite explanations is the idea that the church is raptured in Revelation 4:1 and then never seen again until Revelation 19, which they claim proves we are all out of here before the tribulation starts. It sounds great, if only it was true. This post shows why it is false.
Pre-tribbers also make many other false claims, but this is just a blog post, not a book. So the scope of this post is limited to exposing the false teaching about Revelation 4:1 and their claim that believers are nowhere to be found after verse 4:1 until Revelation 19.
After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things. (Revelation 4:1)
This verse describes how John was shown a vision of the throne of God in heaven. Notice there is no mention of the church being caught up to heaven. There is not even any mention that John was caught up to heaven. He explains in verse 2 he saw these things “in the Spirit”. There is no mention his physical body was caught up into the sky, which is what happens in the rapture. There is a big difference between seeing things in the Spirit and being physically caught up in the air and given a new body, immortal and imperishable, which is what happens in the rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-57).
Notice the reason why he was caught up to heaven, so he could be shown “what must take place after these things.” The purpose for his heavenly vision is clearly stated. It was all about giving John revelation of things to happen in the future. His vision continues in the verses that follow, giving us an unmistakably clear explanation of why he was shown this vision. On the other hand, the purpose for the rapture has nothing to do with being shown the future. The rapture is a rescue operation to deliver God’s people from the wrath of God, which is poured out during the great tribulation (1 Thessalonians 1:10).
So despite the facts that Revelation 4:1 makes no mention of the church being raptured and clearly explains the purpose for John’s vision is to reveal the future, which is not the purpose for the rapture, the pre-tribbers claim this is one of their foundational pillars proving the pre-trib rapture. I suppose we have to keep bending over further to see it.
Here is an actual comment posted on this blog recently by a pre-tribber attempting to explain Revelation 4:1:
The first voice John heard was that of Christ coming to gather his people. John then after that, shifts the topic to the tribulation and we do not see the Church on earth again until Revelations 19 when Christ returns to take His reign.
John said the first voice he heard was “speaking with me,” which means the voice was speaking with John, not to the angels who are the ones who gather the saints in the rapture, and not to the whole church, who would be taken in the rapture, but just to John. Since there is no mention of the church this verse cannot be about the rapture of the church. This was a revelation given to John about the future. That’s it. Claiming this is Christ coming to gather his people is, well, you know.
But wait, it gets worse, much worse. Having established this verse as their foundational proof, they then try to build on it by claiming there are no more mentions of any believers on earth anywhere in the book of Revelation after verse 4:1 until near the end of the book in chapter 19. Unfortunately, this claim is also false. I suppose as long as their foundation is pure crap why not pile more crap on top of it?
Believers are clearly mentioned in Revelation chapters 6, 7, and 14. In Revelation 6 we find multitudes of believers who have been murdered for their faith.
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; they cried out with a loud voice, “Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” They were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number would be complete both of their fellow servants and of their brothers and sisters, who were soon to be killed as they themselves had been killed.” (Revelation 6:9-11)
The breaking of the fifth seal releases great persecution of believers during the 42-month tribulation period. We know this happens during the tribulation because Jesus outlined the same events that John described in Revelation 6 and even listed them in the same order. By the time we get to the fifth seal we are in the tribulation.
Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. (Matthew 24:9)
When the fifth seal we see the souls of those who were slaughtered for the word of God and for their testimony. We are not told when they were killed, but we are told many more “were soon to be killed as they themselves had been killed.”
Question: If there are no believers on earth after Revelation 4:1 how is it possible for many believers to be killed for their faith just as these others had been killed?
Answer: It is not possible. Believers must be here on earth during the tribulation because otherwise it would be impossible for them to be killed for their faith. We are even told the method for killing many of them is beheading (Revelation 20:4). It is in the scriptures, so it is going to happen and it can only happen if the church is still here on earth.
Other scriptures support this slaughter of believers during the 42-month reign of the antichrist. Daniel tells us the antichrist will destroy the holy people (Daniel 8:24, Revelation 13:7). He will wear down the saints of the Highest One, waging war against them and overpowering them for three and a half years, until the Lord returns to defeat him, as shown in this passage:
I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom. (Daniel 7:21-22)
He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. (Daniel 7:25)
Question: If believers are not on earth during the 42-month reign of the antichrist how can he wage war against them, overpower them, and wear them down?
Answer: He can’t do it if they are already in heaven. Believers must be here during the 42-month reign of the antichrist for these prophecies to be fulfilled.
So believers are still on the earth in Revelation 6, which all by itself debunks the claims made by pre-tribbers. But there is much more evidence because believers are also found in Revelation 7. Verses 1-8 tell us about the 144,000 bond-servants of the Lord who are given a seal on their forehead to protect them from the wrath of God, which is about to be poured out.
Question: Why would they need the seal on their forehead to protect them from the wrath of God if they are not on earth during the outpouring of the wrath of God?
Answer: They are on earth during the outpouring of the wrath of God.
When the fifth trumpet is sounded, locusts are commanded to harm everyone who does not have the seal of God on their forehead.
Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. (Revelation 9:3-5)
The 144,000 present a real problem for the pre-tribbers, which is why many of them claim these people are not even Christians, but Jews. It is true their heritage is Jewish, but it is also true they are believers in Jesus as their Messiah, and not only believers, but bond-servants who are given great honor not given to any other believers.
Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty- four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless. (Revelation 14:1-5)
Next we find a great multitude which was so great in number that no one could count them. They came from every nation and tribe and people and tongue. We see them standing before the throne of God in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17. That makes the pre-tribbers very happy because the multitude is already in heaven. However, there is a very big problem here because the elder explains to John where these people came from and the things they endured.
And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.” (Revelation 7:14-17)
Question: How could this great multitude come out of the great tribulation if they were already raptured back in Revelation 4:1?
Answer: They were not raptured in Revelation 4:1. They are still on the earth during the 42-month tribulation and during the first part of the great tribulation. It is impossible to come out of something without first being in it. See my previous post: Twelve Differences Between the Tribulation and Great Tribulation.
The elder’s statement to John also reveals these people endured hunger, thirst, exposure to heat (which would be the case for homeless refugees), and shedding of tears. If they were raptured before the tribulation they would not have endured these things, but since they did endure these things we know they were still here on earth during the tribulation. They were raptured out of the great tribulation, just prior to the outpouring of the wrath of God, just in time to fulfill God’s promise to deliver his people from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 1:10).
So they could not have been raptured way back in Revelation 4:1 because that would contradict what the elder told John. They are raptured after the tribulation, just like Jesus said:
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.” (Matthew 24:29-31)
Amazingly, his statement that it happens AFTER the tribulation fits perfectly with what Daniel saw with the antichrist waging war against the saints for three and a half years. It also fits perfectly with what John saw with the saints killed for their faith after the fifth seal is broken then raptured after the seventh seal is broken.
Now we can move on to the next mention of believers on earth after the start of the tribulation, which is found in Revelation 14.
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.” (Revelation 14:12-13)
We know these people are believers because we are told the following five facts about them.
- The keep the commandments
- They keep their faith
- They are blessed
- They will die in the Lord from after that point
- They will rest from their labors
So the good news is these people are going to heaven when they die. The bad news is they will suffer greatly and many of them will ultimately be killed because they missed the rapture altogether. We know they will not be raptured at the end either because we are told they are going to die in the Lord. People taken in the rapture do not die, but are transformed from mortality to immortality in an instant. So this provides yet another mention of believers on earth during the tribulation and great tribulation and proves there will not be a second rapture at the end of the great tribulation.
The pre-tribbers teach there is one rapture before the tribulation and another one at the end, which means the Lord would have to return two more times, not once. There would have to be a second and a third coming, not just a second coming. There are no scriptures to support any of that, but there are lots of scriptures proving it is false. The only way to see the second rapture and third coming is to bend way over and, you know what.
Conclusion:
This is not written to start a debate or to make entertainment, but to expose a dangerous lie that I believe could cause many to spend eternity in hell.
I hate seeing nice people go out of their way to get cleaned up and dressed up just so they can go get messed up listening to some pre-trib teacher. I personally have friends who are hoping for the rapture to deliver them from the trouble, which is now coming upon the world, because they have been taught the lie of the pre-trib rapture. The reality is trouble is coming and they will still be here because according to the Bible there are many things that must happen before the rapture, including major events that take many years to unfold. See my previous post, Ten Things that Must Happen Before the Rapture.
When trouble comes and these misguided saints find themselves still here their faith will come under attack as they realize they have believed a lie. Then they will be forced to sort out whether or not they can still believe anything from the Bible. Even in the best of times that would be very hard, but during a time of crisis it could be more than their faith can handle.
A great falling away from the faith is coming, and I believe this false doctrine will be to blame for many souls spending eternity in hell (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 1 Timothy 4:1-3), but we don’t have to be part of it. We still have a window of opportunity, a little time left, to study the scriptures and to diligently seek the Lord so when trouble comes we will be well prepared.
Our faith is our most valuable possession because it is our ticket to eternal life, so we should give it the attention it deserves by studying these things for ourselves rather than just relying on someone else to explain it.
In conclusion, the rapture is not nearly as complicated as pre-tribbers make it out to be. The Lord gave it to us simple, not complicated, because he wants us to know these things. Scriptures that describe the rapture really are talking about the rapture! Scriptures that don’t even mention the rapture are not talking about the rapture! Scriptures we don’t understand only require a little extra digging because other scriptures explain them. It’s not complicated!
See more End-Time Bible study topics.
Author: James Bailey
James Bailey is a blogger, business owner, husband and father of two grown children. In 1982, he surrendered his life to the Lord Jesus Christ. In 2012, he founded Z3news.com to broadcast the message of salvation by reporting end time news before it happens.
If anyone believes in a pre- tribe rapture then they would have to believe that the 5 foolish virgins that wasn’t ready when the lord came is the elect , the saints and the remnant. The Bible called the people like them foolish , unjust servants, unbelievers , slothful .
I truly think this topic and article needs to be revisited. I used to be of the mid or post-trib persuasion, but since then so much more revelation has come forth to substantiate the possibility of a pre-trib rapture. Up until now, we have taken scripture out of context, or bunched the church together with Jacob’s trouble, not rightly dividing the passages. Also, we have the Revelation 12 sign appearing on the 23. September 2017, the feast of Trumpets.
I would recommend you look up Robert Breaker on Youtube and watch his video about the rapture. I don’t agree with everything he presents, but he is a very diligent bible teacher and brings forth all the verses and properly applies them. It helped me understand this rather complex topic better.
Luke 21:36 [KJV]) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Any new revelation that comes forth must pass the test of aligning with scriptures. If you can find a pre-trib rapture in scriptures, please share it. I have searched for it, but the only scriptures I have found show the rapture happening after the tribulation, during the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:29-31).
James, it wasn’t long ago you were pre-wrath and now you are post trib like the main line and Catholic churches? When and why did you change?
I have not changed my view. I still believe the rapture is after the tribulation, during the great tribulation.
James, please explain your two rapture position.
I only find one rapture is scriptures.
James, When making the distinction between the first and last part of the 7 year tribulation some people use the terms great tribulation and lesser tribulation. Wouldn’t you agree that the great tribulation begins with the 7th trumpet with the casting out of Satan from Heaven, Rev. 12:4? After the mid-week events we are told several times there are 3 1/2 years remaining, v.6.
I believe the great tribulation begins with the breaking of the seventh seal in Revelation 8 and the rapture happens soon afterwards.
It is rather presumptuous to assume that we are either Pre-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Saints. We cause division amongst ourselves when we take a stand on this issue which breeds both pride and contempt. It is because both of these events are true that we are confused, mistaken and divided. Our position in either scenario is not ours to choose – this choice belongs only to God who knows our hearts. All saints have received the grace through faith to believe in Christ and are saved. It is Jesus who will decide who is ready and worthy to escape the things which are coming upon this earth to test the hearts of all men. It is The Father who chooses a bride for His Son by The Holy Spirit and it is The Church from which The Bride will be taken.
Our part is to keep ourselves filled with The Holy Spirit so that we will remain pure, spotless, unblemished and blameless before the world. We are to watch and stay ready at all times. Then we are to pray that we may be accounted as worthy to escape the things that are coming upon this earth. We will then accept wherever we are placed by God because He is Just.
What Jesus says about this –
When Jesus noticed that all who had come to the dinner were trying to sit in the seats of honor near the head of the table, he gave them this advice: “When you are invited to a wedding feast, don’t sit in the seat of honor. What if someone who is more distinguished than you has also been invited? The host will come and say, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then you will be embarrassed, and you will have to take whatever seat is left at the foot of the table!
“Instead, take the lowest place at the foot of the table. Then when your host sees you, he will come and say, ‘Friend, we have a better place for you!’ Then you will be honored in front of all the other guests. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Luke 14:7-11
God gave us His word because He wants use to know these things. He did not reveal these things to the prophets and have them recorded in the scriptures for us to remain ignorant. To whom much is given much will be required. We will be held accountable and we are without excuse.
Early Church Fathers and the Rapture
While there are dissenting views, this list compiles a time-line from Christ to early church fathers to near current Christian thinking on the rapture timing – most of these authors lifespan overlapped each other.
Jesus Christ (O-33) said: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven….and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and
great glory.” (Matthew 24:29-30).
John (6-101) a disciple of Jesus Christ, wrote: “And I saw as it were a sea of glass…and them that had gotten the victory over the beast (antichrist) and over his image, and over his mark, and over
the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass…” (Rev.15:2).
Barnabas (40-100) knew John and all 12 of Jesus disciples, and traveled with Saint Paul to evangelize among the gentiles, wrote:”The final stumbling block approaches…for the whole [past] time of your faith will profit you nothing, unless now in this wicked time we also withstand coming sources of danger….then the evil one [Antichrist] may find no means of entrance….”
(Epistle of Barnabas, 4).
Polycarp (70-168) Johns apostle and knew Barnabas, wrote:”He comes as the judge of the living and the dead.”
(Epistle to the Philippians, II).
Justin Myrtyr (100-167) a contemporary of Polycarp, wrote:”The man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the
earth against us the Christians…” (Dialogue with Trypho, 110).
Irenaeus (138-202) Polycarps apostle and knew Justin Myrtyr,wrote: “And they [the ten kings who will arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight” (Against Heresies, V,26).
Tertullian (150-220) a contemporary of Irenaeus, wrote:”The souls of the martyrs are taught to wait [Rev.6:9,10,11]…that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God…”
(On the Resurrection of the flesh, 25).
Hyppolytus (158-240) a contemporary of Tertullian, wrote:”The one thousand two hundred and three score days (the last half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the church…” (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61).
Cyprian (200-258) a contemporary of Hyppolytus, wrote:”The day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the end of the world and the time of the Antichrist to draw near, so that we must all stand prepared for the battle…” (Epistle, 55, 1).
Victorinus (240-303) a contemporary of Cyprian, wrote:”…the times of Antichrist, when all shall be injured.”(Commentary on the Appocalypse of the Blessed John, VI, 5).
Lactantius (242-330) a contemporary of Victorinus, wrote:”And power will be given him [Antichrist] to desolate the whole earth for forty two months…” (Divine Institutes, VII, 17).
Athanasius (293-373) a contemporary of Lactantius, wrote:”…they have not spared Thy servants, but are preparing the way for Antichrist.” (History of the Arians, VIII, 79).
Ephrain the Syrian (306-373) a contemporary of Athanasius, wrote: “Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our enemy, Antichrist, appear…” (Sermo Asceticus, I).
Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) a contemporary of Ephrain, wrote:”The church declares to you the things concerning Antichrist before they arrive…it is well that, knowing these things, thou
shouldest make thyself ready beforehand.”
(Catechetical Lectures, 15, 9).
Jerome (340-422) a contemporary of Cyril of Jerusalem, wrote:”I told you that Christ would not come unless Antichrist had come before.” (Epistle 21).
Chrysostom (345-407) a contemporary of Jerome, wrote:”…the time of Antichrist…will be a sign of the coming of Christ…”(Homilies on II Thessalonians 2:2-3)
Augustine (354-430) a contemporary of Chrysostom, wrote:”But he who reads this passage [Daniel 12:1-13], even half asleep can not fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, for a short time, assail the church…” (The City of God, XX, 23).
Venerable Bede (673-735) wrote: “[The Church’s triumph will] follow the reign of Antichrist.”(The Explanation of the Apocalypse, II, 8).
Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153) wrote: “There remains only one thing–that the demon of noonday [Antichrist] should appear, to seduce those who still remain in Christ…”(Sermons on the Song of Songs, 33, 16).
Roger Bacon (1214-1274) wrote: “…because of future perils [for the Church] in the times of Antichrist…” (Opus Majus, II, p. 634).
John Wycliffe (1320-1384) wrote: “Wherefore let us pray to God that He keep us in the hour of temptation, which is coming on all the world, Revelation 3:10.”(Writings of the Reverend and Learned John Wycliffe, D.D. p.155)
Martin Luther (1483-1546) wrote:”[The book of Revelation] is intended as a revelation of things that are to happen in the future, and especially of tribulations and disasters for the Church…”
(Works of Martin Luther, VI, p. 481).
Menno Simons (1496-1561) a contemporary of Martin Luther, wrote: “…He [Jesus] will appear as a triumphant Prince and a victorious King to bring judgment. Then will those who persecute
us look upon Him…” (Complete Writings…p. 622).
John Calvin (1509-1564) a contemporary of Menno Simons, wrote: “We ought not to follow in our inquiries after Antichrist, especially where such pride proceeds to a public desolation of the Church.” (Institutes, Vol. 2, p. 411).
John Knox (1515-1572) a contemporary of John Calvin), wrote:”…the great love of God towards His Church, whom He pleased to forewarn of dangers to come, so many years before they come to pass…to wit, the man of sin, the Antichrist the ***** of Babylon.”(The History of the Reformation…, I, p. 76).
John Fox (1516-1587) a contemporary of John Knox, wrote:”…that second beast prophesied to come in the later time of the Church…to disturb the whole Church of Christ…”(Acts and Monuments, I).
Daniel Whitby (1638-1726) wrote: “…after the fall of Antichrist, there shall be such a glorious state of the Church…so shall this be the Church of Martyrs, and of those who had not received the Mark of the Beast…” (A Paraphrase and Commentary, p. 696).
Matthew Henry (1662-1714) a contemporary of Daniel Whitby, wrote: “Those who keep the gospel in a time of peace shall be kept by Christ in an hour of temptation [Revelation 3:10] .”
(Commentary, VI, p. 1134).
Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758) a contemporary of Matthew Henry, wrote: “…continuance of Antichrist’s reign [when the Church is persecuted] did not commence before the year of Christ 479…” (A history of the Work of Redemption, p. 217).
John Newton (1725-1807) a contemporary of Jonathan Edwards, wrote: “Fear not temptation’s fiery day, for I will be thy strength and stay. Thou hast my promise, hold it fast, the trying hour [of] Rev 3:10, will soon be past.” (The Works of the Rev. John Newton, Vol. II, p. 152).
George Muller (1805-1898) wrote:”The scripture declares plainly that the Lord Jesus will not come until the Apostasy shall have taken place, and the man of sin shall have been revealed…”
(“Mrs. Mueller’s Missionary Tours and Labours, p. 148).
R. Trench (1807-1886) a contemporary of George Muller, wrote:”…the Philadelphian church…to be kept in temptation, not to be exempted from temptation…” (Seven Churches of Asia, p. 183).
Carl F. Keil (1807-1888) a contemporary of R. Trench, wrote:”…the persecution of the last enemy Antichrist against the church of the Lord…” (Biblical Commentary, Vol. XXXIV, p. 503).
S. P. Tregelles (1813-1875) a contemporary of Carl F. Keil, wrote:”The Scripture teaches the Church to wait for the manifestation of Christ. The secret [pre-trib] theory bids us to expect a coming before any such manifestation.”(The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming, p. 71).
Nathaniel West (1826-1906) a contemporary of S. P. Tregelles,wrote: “[The Pre-Trib Rapture] is built on a postulate (assume to be true), vicious in logic… repudiated by the early Church…”
(The Apostle Paul and the “any moment” Theory, p. 30).
Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910) a contemporary of Nathaniel West, wrote: “He will keep us in the mist of, and also from, the hour of temptation [Revelation 3:10].”(The Episles of John, Jude and the Book of Revelation, p. 266).
M. Vincent (1834-1922) a contemporary of Alexander Maclaren, wrote: “The preposition ‘from’ implies, not a keeping from temptation, but a keeping in temptation [Revelation 3:10]..”
(Word Studies…, p. 466).
Grattan Guinness (1835-1910) a contemporary of M.Vincent,wrote: “…the Church is on earth during the action of the Apocalypse…” (The Approaching End of the Age, p. 136).
Theodor Zahn (1838-1933) a contemporary of Grattan Guinness,wrote:”He will preserve…at the time of the great temptation [Rev.3:10].” (Zahn-Kommentar, I, p. 305).
I.T. Beckwith (1843-1936) a contemporary of Theodor Zahn, wrote:”The Philadelphians…are promised that they shall be carried in safety through the great trial [Rev. 3:10], they shall
not fall.” (The Apocalypse of John, p. 484).
Robert Cameron (1845-1922) a contemporary of I.T. Beckwith,wrote:”The Coming for, and the Coming with, the saints, still persists, although it involves a manifest contradiction, two Second comings which is an absurdity.” (emphasis mine)
(Scriptural Truth About the Lord’s Return, p. 639).
Amazing and thanks Matthew for posting these quotes capturing the historical church position on the second coming of our Lord. I have been seeking such information for quite a while especially since the Lord rescued me from the pre trib delusion last year.
There are those that argue that our rapture view doesn’t matter in the issue of our eternal destiny especially the pre trib believers but it does. The Covid deception and vaccine mandates now prove without doubt ( to those who expect to go through great tribulation as the bible teaches) that those who even contrary to 2 Thess 2 believe that antichrist will only be revealed after rapture will never be able to accept the bibles plain teaching with regard to the mark of the beast. Thus they run the risk of being deceived and damned to hell for their unbelief.
The pre-tribber who wrote, “The first voice John heard was that of Christ coming to gather his people. John then after that, shifts the topic to the tribulation and we do not see the Church on earth again until Revelations 19 when Christ returns to take His reign.” actually shot himself/herself in the foot with this argument. Why. Because the church is ALSO not mentioned in Revelation 4:1, so according to his argument, this also could not be talking about the church either.
Pre-tribbers claim there is no mention of the church after chapter 4 and before chapter 19, but the church is mentioned repeatedly throughout those chapters, including 6:11, 7:1-8, 12:5-6, 12:11, 12:13-17, and 14:1-5.
The word “Taken” in regards to this “Rapture” business is the same word used when someone is captured and killed. Slain. Killed. Not “magically teleported to a mystical realm of peace and light.” Not “Safely taken gently from where you are in safety and safeness, safely.” KILLED. So, do you want to be taken (slain) or left behind?
The Greek word episunagō in Matthew 24:31 is translated as “gather” and defined as “to gather together.” Being gathered together is a lot different from being killed. There is no mention of anyone getting killed, but I don’t think we will care about what happens to our old body after we get our new body.
Matthew 22:2 The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
Genesis 29:28
And Jacob (ISRAEL) did so, and FULLFILLED her WEEK: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also. KJV
The bride and groom get to know one another for one week which is Jewish custom. I go to make a place for you and Only my father knows – Jewish custom
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
John 14:2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
KJV Jeremiah 30:7
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of JACOB’S (ISRAEL) trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
Cell Phone is not in the Bible, nor Train, Plane, or Auto, so they are not….find out the Jewish custom’s. DO WE have ALL the facts.
KJV Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.AND FINISHED IT BY THE BLOOD! Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:9
Proverbs 18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit. as well what we teach others.
It is almost a prideful stance that defies the Bibles verses stating that you will suffer persecution as a Christian. It is a slap in the face of those martyrs in the Middle East. Young children refused to deny Christ and were murdered and beheaded yet a grown man ….a pastor claims he will not suffer because is a “too afraid”. Shameful.
Just this morning, I read a story about a kid in Staten Island that while walking to school back in January was attacked…but survived. In a neighbors home surveillance video it appeared to NYPD detectives that the perp was trying to decapitate this 9 year old kid from behind while holding him in a chokehold. Well long story short, this guy was arrested for plotting to blow up Times Square BEFORE they ever even identified him as the one who tried to murder this kid. The Feds have had him in custody since earlier this year and NYPD can’t touch him for attempting to behead this little boy. There was one other sentence in the article that really frightens me, that this was possibly ISIS recruitment related. I think the radicals are ready to do what they do best and thats–KILL. Pretending we can’t really be touched by this on a mass scale in America is just not logical thinking. Obama says its a religion of peace…..I say its a religion of pieces, blown and stabbed to pieces. Sorry if that sounds sarcastic or flippant, I’m not trying to be.
Delia, persecution is promised to all those who proclaim the gospel in truth. The fact that we are not persecuted here in the western culture, is probably due to the fact that we are not preaching the gospel and turning the world upside down. We try to do things the ‘polite’ way here. I am guilty of that, hands down. But that has nothing to do with the period called Jacob’s trouble or the tribulation. This is a completely different scenario, and one we are about to enter into this fall 2017.
Satan is the great deceiver. The father of lies. Imagine for a moment one of the greatest lies in history. A false doctrine that would result in millions of Christians turning away from God and end up in hell. The lie? “Don’t fear! have faith! You do not need to worry! God is going to rapture you before the tribulation comes! God wouldn’t let you suffer. God loves you and He will save you” The BEST lies have a dabbling of the “Truth”. Of course, it makes perfect sense. “Thank you Lord! I am so happy I don’t have to go through the tribulation”!!! “I am so happy I don’t have to be killed for my faith”!!! “I am so happy I wont go through the most devastating time in history, that’s for the godless heathens that turned away from you Lord”. Now the tribulation starts, millions die of starvation, nuclear war, rape, riots, murder on a scale never seen before!!!
“WHAT!!!! I wasn’t supposed to be here for this!!!! God where are you??? Why have you forsaken me??? Maybe you aren’t real!!!! Maybe everything I was taught was a lie”????? Now enter the Anti-Christ with his deception and lies, his miracles and lying signs and wonders……..that believe, “Oh!!!! LOOK!!!! This is the true God, this is our savior”!!!!! and BAM!!!!! To hell they go……………….millions. This is why it is so very important to get the word out about the lie that is the pre-trib rapture!!!!!!!! (( I know I don’t have the big words, or the flowery language skills that most of you do so please forgive my crude writing ))
I have heard several well known pastors say that GOD loves them too much to allow them to go through anything horrible when discussing endtime events or asked what they think or believe about endtime events. I recently listened to a pastor on the radio make a joke by declaring he was going up in the rapture before anything bad happens because he is a ‘fraidy cat. WHAT??? I could hear the congregation laughing and hee hawing at his statement. It was funny to them and clearly not something they should even give a second thought to. I once heard someone say that congregations will be physically dragging their pastors/preachers into the street when they realize just how wrong they were. Its sad how many refuse to even question if maybe they have it all wrong.